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how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

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papasmerf
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how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby papasmerf » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:32 pm

been trying to "surf" the windwaves at my local spot. they are usually 1-3 ft tall, not sure what speed they are traveling at,,, i will go straight downwind doing carving turns but i seem to be way outrunning the waves, like i can start a carving toeside turn on the inside of a wind wave, i can feel it boost me, and i start going "downhill" a bit, and then i will carve thru the wave in front of it and sometimes the next one. maybe on small waves it is impossible to carve that tight to stay on it? about 3/4 of the way thru the carve i lose speed and sort of need a little help from kite,,, but my goal is to not use the kite but the waves only. using a north sonar 1150 and 7m hyperlink. the hyperlink works pretty good for drift and shutting off power. these aren't waves like at the gorge,, defintely smaller. would a more glide oriented foil work better? then i could glide further out from the wave without losing speed, and then cut back and catch it again? no surf background for me, btw. of course, these wind waves aren't like a long connected same wave,, they do tend to disappear lengthwise,, maybe that is problem. any advice?

papasmerf
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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby papasmerf » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:43 pm

ttt

Matteo V
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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby Matteo V » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:18 pm

papasmerf wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:32 pm
been trying to "surf" the windwaves at my local spot. they are usually 1-3 ft tall, not sure what speed they are traveling at,,, i will go straight downwind doing carving turns but i seem to be way outrunning the waves,....
Unfortunately, lake swell, or deep ocean swell is different than ocean breaking swell. With lake or deep ocean swell, set speed is half wave speed. Or you can think of it as wave speed is twice set speed.

Thus, if you get on the last wave in the set, and continue to ride that wave, you will notice it goes from small to big (in the center of the set), and then small again as you get kicked out of the front of the set again.

So with lake swell, you need to ride from the back of the set to the front, and then turn around and get behind that set again to start over.

With deep ocean waves that begin to have lower portion of thier amplitude contact the shallower ground near the beach, the set speed begins to, and eventually will match the wave speed.

Ground swell like this can happen in places like the Gorge in the US. But that is only kind of half way ocean swell, as it does not stay in contact with the river bottom past the shallow area that caused it, and thus you still need to turn around and go back to catch the next set.


Here is a much better, and accurate, explanation than what I gave you.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... v_y9_mbwzL

Just a simple google search.
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slowboat
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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby slowboat » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:05 am

A bigger and higher aspect foil might work better due to lower stall speed and more glide. They can be kind of a pain to kite with though due to all the lift they provide. Have you considered a wing ding for a more pure surfing experience?

papasmerf
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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby papasmerf » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:40 am

slowboat wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:05 am
A bigger and higher aspect foil might work better due to lower stall speed and more glide. They can be kind of a pain to kite with though due to all the lift they provide. Have you considered a wing ding for a more pure surfing experience?
yes, but only just got a wing,, and no board until march for me. plus the learning curve, never done it.

i was also think a higher aspect foil,, not sure how big to go i have a high aspect 850 ish front wing.

i was also thinking a lower drag foil for gliding,, hoping someone on here had gone down this path before

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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby Slappysan » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:49 am

papasmerf wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:32 pm
of course, these wind waves aren't like a long connected same wave,, they do tend to disappear lengthwise,, maybe that is problem. any advice?
This is the main issue, wind swell is usually only 3-5m wide, not one long wave like ground swell delivers. I find that they just don't last and you have to always be hunting for a new one. It helps a lot to be going across the wave and not down the wave though, then cut back and across the other side. Be on your toe side or heel side as much as you can.

This is what I mainly do, even though I do it in the ocean it's still crappy wind swell and you can see I still end up out running the swell a lot:


That day was too windy for my usual hydrofoiling kite, Peak 4 5m so I had to use the 4.5m LF Solo which doesn't drift as well making it more challenging.
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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby Flyboy » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:17 am

Slappysan wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:49 am
papasmerf wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:32 pm
of course, these wind waves aren't like a long connected same wave,, they do tend to disappear lengthwise,, maybe that is problem. any advice?
This is the main issue, wind swell is usually only 3-5m wide, not one long wave like ground swell delivers. I find that they just don't last and you have to always be hunting for a new one. It helps a lot to be going across the wave and not down the wave though, then cut back and across the other side. Be on your toe side or heel side as much as you can.

This is what I mainly do, even though I do it in the ocean it's still crappy wind swell and you can see I still end up out running the swell a lot:


That day was too windy for my usual hydrofoiling kite, Peak 4 5m so I had to use the 4.5m LF Solo which doesn't drift as well making it more challenging.
Those are really small (& close together) swells. Hard to do anything much with that.

My technique on wind swell: go upwind, then ride downwindish, riding toeside, going more or less across the swell. Keeping the kite stationary hit the trough & carve up to the peak & then back down the swell, hit the trough & carve up to the peak & then down the swell etc. This kind of toeside/frontside riding is what you see all the time in kitesurfing videos with a SB in perfect side shore conditions, but something that is very difficult/impossible on a SB with side/on wind. However, it but works well with a foil because of the glide you get ... especially good with a Peak4. :thumb:

It's not exactly "surfing", but it feels great & is the reason I don't expect to spend much time on a SB in the future unless the waves are really jacking.

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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:46 am

You need bigger waves.

Match angle to pace and you can carve up and down lake swell as soon as it gets knee high. Hip high and you can start rail to rail without much need of the kite. Similar line to unhooked riding.

On Lakes, you can't really afford to be a wave purist and shun the idea of kite power. With the right kites you can sling yourself into nice looking sets, kill the throttle, drift or chase the kite for as many turns as you can, then back on the power angled upwind looking for the next shapely bit.

Do a few downwinders to really get into the groove of lake swell.

Around here its all about working the best spots. We have a break wall where it wraps, gets a little steeper and cleans up a bit, a set of limestone shelfs up from that gets fun in a bit more wind, and occasionally when it cranks its amazing at a handful of spots within quick reach.

My most common fun conditions are 12-16 knots. Gets about 2-3 foot within an hour. Fun but not really surfing.... more practice. Not worth going very far.

Takes north of 16 knots, for surf impressions to get more convincing.

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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby Flyboy » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:39 am

What I love is the feeling when you slide down into the trough & the glide carries you back to the peak again with no kite power, a little pump at the top & you slide back down the swell. Just the occasional tweak from the kite. It doesn't take a lot of swell to do it.

The other "wave riding" technique is riding heel side across the swell at a bit more of an upwind angle, using the kite to turn downwind onto the swell, then either complete the bottom turn & turn again off the lip, or carve back & keep sliding along the wave. It makes very modest conditions fun - instead of banging around through the chop you're constantly gliding on the swells ... & effortless to get back upwind & do it again.

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Re: how to "surf" wind waves on inland lake

Postby omg » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:15 am

What’s the right kind of front wing for these lake small swell/wave conditions? Faster higher AR or the opposite?


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