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Wingtip breaching on wave turns

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Cefirmeza
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Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby Cefirmeza » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:23 pm

Starting to get comfortable at breaching the wingtip while carving and making closed turns on a wave. I mostly rely on the kite to avoid a crash but I’ve seen people doing on foil surfing with quite some speed and power turns like they were on a wave board.

Whats the secret? How hard is it possible to breach without crashing and what are the more appropriate wings to do so?

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slingshotucf
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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby slingshotucf » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:43 am

Depends on the foil. Some foils can ride with a wing tip out of the water while others will have cavitation and drop. So it might not be you. Axis and Moses are two brands that I've seen be able to breach and keep going. Usually high aspect foils.
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evan
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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby evan » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:07 am

slingshotucf wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:43 am
while others will have cavitation
only AC75 is cavitating when they approach 55kn boatspeed, don't remember any kitefoiler hitting those speeds ;)

When talking about ventilating wing tips: the most horizontal/straight wingtips will handle that the best (look at the recent race wing designs).
Winglets or (downward) curved wings will ventilate with a big change in lift that is hard to recover from.

Also the surface finish is very important. The glossy finish most wings have (easy to manufacture) is very bad with ventilation. Ideally you want a matte sanded surface so the water can stick to it with less chance for sucking air into the low pressure parts of the profile (also gives less drag when submerged as a bonus)
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jumptheshark
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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 pm

Zeeko have a specific texture to help stop drop out when venting a wingtip. It's basically a fine grid pattern etched into the wing surface. They are also straight wings with no anhedral.

My old zeeko carver wing was quite tolerant of tip vent, my current Lift 170 is also quite tolerant, but I suspect that experience is playing more of a role and that I now ride with better ability to both predict and mitigate drop out.

Like OP I am mostly venting the tips in hard "off the lip" heel side carves. In those instances, I am often also turning the kite aggressively at the top of the window, so the kite takes a major portion of my weight, the wing is generally submerged by the time I am over the foil and weighting it again. In many instances, I intentionally vent the tip, more by canting my board over as hard as possible. Grab the rail and you can really enjoy a surfboard type feel to a sharp radius turn.

Am also playing with floater type scenarios on cresting swell, as well as many small strapless airs. From what I can tell, recovery from even pretty flat "kerplop" type wing re entry has mostly to do with unweighting via the kite while landing. Be it a floater/whitewash grind, or small air, I am often pulling the trigger on the kite to land not take off. Take off is purely an ollie type.
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evan
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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby evan » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:05 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 pm
Zeeko have a specific texture to help stop drop out when venting a wingtip. It's basically a fine grid pattern etched into the wing surface. They are also straight wings with no anhedral.
It seems that any textured surface is better than a glossy gelcoat. You want the water to stick to the surface and not repelled by it. That is why you can even notice a greasy fingerprint on a well sanded mast.

Funny thing about the zeeko texture is that it's just a rough cnc job of the g10 wing. Normally this is the intermediate state before the final cnc passes to get a smooth finish.

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jumptheshark
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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:18 pm

interesting about the rough finish. One of those happy accident I guess. If it works I'm all for it. So many advances are initially unintentional. Peak kites for foiling are a great example.

Definitely hear you on the grease aspect. Remember that hilarious clip by some Nordic kiters where one guy smears cured meat on the front of the other guys wing!

I avoid toughing the mast after applying sunscreen and definitely not getting any on the wind. I generally don't ride loaded up enough to make a whole lot of difference, at least compared to say racers. Those guys carry isopropyl alcohol and a cloth to wipe down each time out! I just clean mine up a few times a summer when its starting to look a little glossed up from my hands in places. Still, I think about it every time handle and carry my gear to the launch and back.

Cefirmeza
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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby Cefirmeza » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:34 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 pm
Zeeko have a specific texture to help stop drop out when venting a wingtip. It's basically a fine grid pattern etched into the wing surface. They are also straight wings with no anhedral.

My old zeeko carver wing was quite tolerant of tip vent, my current Lift 170 is also quite tolerant, but I suspect that experience is playing more of a role and that I now ride with better ability to both predict and mitigate drop out.

Like OP I am mostly venting the tips in hard "off the lip" heel side carves. In those instances, I am often also turning the kite aggressively at the top of the window, so the kite takes a major portion of my weight, the wing is generally submerged by the time I am over the foil and weighting it again. In many instances, I intentionally vent the tip, more by canting my board over as hard as possible. Grab the rail and you can really enjoy a surfboard type feel to a sharp radius turn.

Am also playing with floater type scenarios on cresting swell, as well as many small strapless airs. From what I can tell, recovery from even pretty flat "kerplop" type wing re entry has mostly to do with unweighting via the kite while landing. Be it a floater/whitewash grind, or small air, I am often pulling the trigger on the kite to land not take off. Take off is purely an ollie type.

I felt those tight turn breaches so much more natural and easy with a slightly bigger kite as I could hold more weight on the bar making the foil free to break the surface.
But not as fun as heading out with underpowered surfing on a small kite.

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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:13 pm

Yeah, that't right. But it only really takes a half second of lift. I ride tiny kites, and as long as you have the kite turning hard through zenith at the right moment you can breech nicely.
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Kamikuza
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Re: Wingtip breaching on wave turns

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:20 am

When my balance is perfect a beached tip is ok, or survivable at least. I guess the secret is more time in the water...!


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