A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
-
IDAVIS
- Medium Poster
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:25 am
- Local Beach: Cesantes
Aguieira
Sabon
Lingunde
Santa Cristina
(Galicia, north from Spain)
- Favorite Beaches: Taiba (BR)
Cauipe (BR)
Aguieira (ESP)
Sabon (ESP)
Cesantes (ESP)
Pobra Caramiñal (ESP)
Lingunde (ESP)
Barraña (ESP)
Razo (ESP)
- Style: Freestyle / kite Foil / Big Air
- Gear: Airush Razor 9m & 11m v9,13m v10 (freestyle)
Airush Livewire Team v8 140x42
Airush Ultra Team 12m / Airush One 9m v2 (Foil)
Slingshot Phantasm PFH 581
North Sonar CF95 / MA 850 v2
North Mini Scoop 2024
North Orbit PRO 2024 9m (Big Air)
North Atmos Carbon 2024 138x41
- Brand Affiliation: None
- Location: Galicia (Spain)
-
Has thanked:
5 times
-
Been thanked:
12 times
-
Contact:
Postby IDAVIS » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:20 am
Hi, i am interested in buy a carbon mast, but I heard than iths normally have imperfections in manufacturing in all brands, its normally becouse are hand made...
Are this true?
Thanks
-
jumptheshark
- Very Frequent Poster
- Posts: 2169
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
- Local Beach: Shhhhh
- Favorite Beaches: Nude
- Gear: The good stuff
- Brand Affiliation: None
-
Has thanked:
387 times
-
Been thanked:
707 times
Postby jumptheshark » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:48 pm
I think most of the established players have their manufacturing pretty dialled in. Still, many will paint the flared flange from mast to mast base at the top and place their logo there to cover what is usually the ugliest part of the lay up. The mast itself in most cases are quite clean as its usually pre greg and on straight parts like that people with experience can get a clean lay up pretty much every time.
In any case, there is a difference between structural strength and cosmetic perfection and I would not stress over cosmetics unless your willing to pay the big bucks for something like Ketos. That stuff is art.
I ride a Lift foil and its not the same piece of beauty when held in hand next to a Ketos, but is still a lovely piece of craftsmanship visually and an absolute pleasure to ride.
-
jakemoore
- Very Frequent Poster
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:59 am
- Kiting since: 2003
- Gear: More wing than kite
- Brand Affiliation: None
- Location: Oleander
-
Has thanked:
146 times
-
Been thanked:
295 times
-
Contact:
Postby jakemoore » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:58 pm
The imperfections that are more noticeable come from transport, setup and riding. I wouldn’t worry about it unless you plan to hang it for display and never ride.
-
plummet
- Very Frequent Poster
- Posts: 6819
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
- Local Beach: EE
- Favorite Beaches: NZ
- Style: Terrain riding
- Gear: Old wornout ozone.
Plummet hydrofoil and mutant
- Brand Affiliation: None
-
Has thanked:
11 times
-
Been thanked:
224 times
Postby plummet » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:16 pm
Just buy and ride. You are over thinking it.
-
IDAVIS
- Medium Poster
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:25 am
- Local Beach: Cesantes
Aguieira
Sabon
Lingunde
Santa Cristina
(Galicia, north from Spain)
- Favorite Beaches: Taiba (BR)
Cauipe (BR)
Aguieira (ESP)
Sabon (ESP)
Cesantes (ESP)
Pobra Caramiñal (ESP)
Lingunde (ESP)
Barraña (ESP)
Razo (ESP)
- Style: Freestyle / kite Foil / Big Air
- Gear: Airush Razor 9m & 11m v9,13m v10 (freestyle)
Airush Livewire Team v8 140x42
Airush Ultra Team 12m / Airush One 9m v2 (Foil)
Slingshot Phantasm PFH 581
North Sonar CF95 / MA 850 v2
North Mini Scoop 2024
North Orbit PRO 2024 9m (Big Air)
North Atmos Carbon 2024 138x41
- Brand Affiliation: None
- Location: Galicia (Spain)
-
Has thanked:
5 times
-
Been thanked:
12 times
-
Contact:
Postby IDAVIS » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:08 pm
I see Slingshot Mast with this imperfections
https://ibb.co/q1YZPyH
Its like a área sanded.... Are normal?
-
SMJ
- Frequent Poster
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:29 am
- Kiting since: 2040
- Gear: Cabrimha, Core, Flysurfer, Carved, Naish, Duotone, Ocean Rodeo, Slingshot, Liquid Force, Lift, Spleene, Mystic, ION.
- Brand Affiliation: None
-
Has thanked:
59 times
-
Been thanked:
79 times
Postby SMJ » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:28 pm
Trade-offs as with everything else in kiting. Yes, you can often spot imperfections right out of the box with carbon. It's also more brittle in cold weather (I've snapped 2 masts hitting bottom), but it's also lighter.
-
IDAVIS
- Medium Poster
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:25 am
- Local Beach: Cesantes
Aguieira
Sabon
Lingunde
Santa Cristina
(Galicia, north from Spain)
- Favorite Beaches: Taiba (BR)
Cauipe (BR)
Aguieira (ESP)
Sabon (ESP)
Cesantes (ESP)
Pobra Caramiñal (ESP)
Lingunde (ESP)
Barraña (ESP)
Razo (ESP)
- Style: Freestyle / kite Foil / Big Air
- Gear: Airush Razor 9m & 11m v9,13m v10 (freestyle)
Airush Livewire Team v8 140x42
Airush Ultra Team 12m / Airush One 9m v2 (Foil)
Slingshot Phantasm PFH 581
North Sonar CF95 / MA 850 v2
North Mini Scoop 2024
North Orbit PRO 2024 9m (Big Air)
North Atmos Carbon 2024 138x41
- Brand Affiliation: None
- Location: Galicia (Spain)
-
Has thanked:
5 times
-
Been thanked:
12 times
-
Contact:
Postby IDAVIS » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:45 pm
Trade offs?
-
BayAreaKite
- Medium Poster
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:15 pm
- Local Beach: Fay Bainbridge
- Favorite Beaches: Squamish, Crissy, Waddell
- Style: All types!
- Gear: Ozone kites, Project Cedrus foil
- Brand Affiliation: Owner of Adherend Innovations / Project Cedrus
-
Has thanked:
9 times
-
Been thanked:
44 times
Postby BayAreaKite » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:49 pm
Here's a handmade carbon mast with fewer imperfections, because it avoids the top flared area which is a poor structural design:
http://www.projectcedrus.com Also made in USA, not China.
Carbon masts shouldn't "break in cold weather." I designed carbon structures for the Boeing 787 which regularly sees temps of -50C, for 30 years. If masts are breaking, it's more design/manufacturing... not the fault of the material.
-
SMJ
- Frequent Poster
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:29 am
- Kiting since: 2040
- Gear: Cabrimha, Core, Flysurfer, Carved, Naish, Duotone, Ocean Rodeo, Slingshot, Liquid Force, Lift, Spleene, Mystic, ION.
- Brand Affiliation: None
-
Has thanked:
59 times
-
Been thanked:
79 times
Postby SMJ » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:39 am
If you whack bottom hard with a carbon mast, you can break them. I know this because I have broken 2 carbon masts and have the pics. I've never broken an aluminum mast - which is cheaper in cost but heavier in weight. Trade-offs.
-
BayAreaKite
- Medium Poster
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:15 pm
- Local Beach: Fay Bainbridge
- Favorite Beaches: Squamish, Crissy, Waddell
- Style: All types!
- Gear: Ozone kites, Project Cedrus foil
- Brand Affiliation: Owner of Adherend Innovations / Project Cedrus
-
Has thanked:
9 times
-
Been thanked:
44 times
Postby BayAreaKite » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:16 am
I am sorry @SMJ, but that is a gross generalization and shows a general misunderstanding of material properties. Standard modulus carbon fiber is at minimum 5x the strength of aluminum (1400MPa vs. 300MPa). It is also 18x stiffer than aluminum (125GPa vs. 6.8GPa). If you are breaking carbon masts, it is because they are poorly designed and manufactured. Yes, even the big brands are still learning about composites and don't necessarily know how to make them stronger than their aluminum masts. This is why I would never buy a carbon mast from a big kite brand, and decided to build my own. There is a reason all high performance cars, bikes, and airplanes are made out of carbon fiber: it is stiffer and stronger than aluminum.
Sometimes people confuse the failure "mode" of a material with the strength. Yes, carbon has less elongation before failure than most metals, which means that it tends to fracture catastrophically whereas metals can dissipate energy through plastic deformation before ultimate failure. But again, with proper design, composites can have better toughness and energy absorption than metals. Remember the recent F1 crash where the driver walked away after he crashed into a barrier then caught fire?
I am not here to sell my mast, I am here to educate. I am a mechanical engineer with 15+ years of experience in the composites industry. I have had customers run Project Cedrus into the bottom as well and it has broken their fuselage or their board. Not one Project Cedrus carbon mast has ever failed in use, and that is even with some of the new 1m wings and 100+ L boards. So that's great that you have pictures of broken carbon masts, but that proves nothing more than those masts weren't strong enough.
Return to “Hydrofoil”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Oldman_Dave, OzBungy and 176 guests