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Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

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AndersP
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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby AndersP » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:34 am

If you look at kitefoil racing you'll see light and heavy riders winning races.

Seems like skills are much more important than weight in foiling.

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby windmaker » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:02 pm

AndersP wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:34 am
If you look at kitefoil racing you'll see light and heavy riders winning races.

Seems like skills are much more important than weight in foiling.
Sure skills are super important, make a bad start, misjudge a lay line or miss a tack/jibe and it's all over but all the top racers I know of are in the 80kg to 95kg range, no lightweights. Same with the girls, rather big than small.

Lightweight might be good for light winds and acceleration but once up and foiling fat is fast!

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby lowglider » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:24 pm

Gliders literacy:
Performance ballast is loaded into the glider to improve high-speed cruise performance.

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby Dave_5280 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:44 am

It’s not weight, it’s ballast! 😂

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:07 pm

Dave_5280 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:44 am
It’s not weight, it’s ballast! 😂
This funny remark makes me think about an idea.
Should we indeed consider ballast differently and not conclude too soon on weight advantage.

Indeed ballast is "ideally" located higher than men's center of gravity... hence more efficient fot counter weight

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby elguapo » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:56 pm

same friction....same power...equal skill..
in a race he lighter weight will always win.
someone else can explain the physics behind it..


in a nutshell.. lighter wieght means not power has less pass to move.

there is a reason carbon fibers/composites exist in the world of racing...
-->to reduce weight.

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby lowglider » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:33 pm

Insider info: some lightweight famous rider added weight to the board.

Ignorance is bold ;)

Bonus:


Why do glider airplanes sometimes take on water ballast?
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-do-g ... d-dijk-van

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:28 pm

No.

IMO and experiences, the short version:

The light rider has benefits when only limited power accessible, meaning in light wind.

When windy, the heavier rider is faster, as he/she can transfer more wind energy to speed, and has better control at high speeds.

--------------------------------------------

Regarding "carbon is faster", yes, but not because it is lighter as such, but because the swing weight when oscillating is reduced, thus less power loss.
Besides the fact, a stiffer board means you can transfer more energy to forward power (=speed).
Having a higher weight centered mass is key, for speed.
When turning or accelerating (same thing almost), that being a formula one car or an aerobatic plane or a surf board, low weight is much better.
But for max speed, not so.

The heavier rider needs more lift from the foil wing yes, meaning more drag, but has also more lift from the kite, which somewhat evens out, besides the fact he/she has more forward thrust from the kite.

And heavier riders can control higher speeds, just a fact, and why the speed records in high winds are always heavy riders.

This also goes for TT boards and windsurf boards, same thing.

Regarding gliders, it can not be compared whatsoever to the wind driven sports.
For full size gliders we use ballast as it will increase flying speed, and competitions are almost only about covering a huge distance in the shortest time.
Glide angle is the same for light and heavy gliders.
BUT, even if it was only about coveríng distance, there is always some wind present, and suddenly a light glider is useless, if the glide speed equals the wind speed, you are going nowhere againt the wind, you are just stuck in the very same place :(

For RC hang gliders we use weight to go faster, A LOT faster, we more than double the weight of the gliders, if windy.
This is where it is not equal to kitesurf, as in kitesurf you have trust from the kite, meaning bigger kite equals more thrust (and also more drag yes)
With gliders the only thrust we have, is the gravity component.
Meaning, if you quadruple the weight, you go twice as fast, when no wind, a simple fact.
Even if you dive straight down towards the ground, because drag is squared with speed.
But when wind, you can actually fly backwards relative to the ground, if too light, where you will fly forward if heavy.

When turning, equals acceleration, weight is loss, but as the speed is so much higher when heavy, you still outperform the lighter glider hugely.

A bit off topic maybe, or maybe not, but you can not compare to gliders, nor can you compare to the advantage of lighter and stiffer "vessels", as centered mass is a very different thing, and has many benefits, depending on the conditions and task :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:59 am

Heavy rider is faster, but speed is not all ;)

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Re: Will a light weight rider be faster than a heavy weight?

Postby PrfctChaos » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:41 am

Graph below for indicative front wing drag, for 70 Kg load vs 90 Kg load, over a 25 km/h - 60km/h speed range (Same front wing used by both). As mentioned big advantage to the light rider at slower speeds (light winds), but the light riders advantage becomes smaller and smaller as speed increases. So can easily see the overall advantage going to the heavier and stronger rider at high speeds if he can hold more kite power.
Capture Light vs heavy.PNG


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