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new front wings that don't create more lift at higher speeds

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papasmerf
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new front wings that don't create more lift at higher speeds

Postby papasmerf » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:22 am

been sort of reading this on some newer products,, how true is it? to me, it seems like it goes against the very principals of the wings ability to create lift. like some have mentioned the popular 633 and that it tends to keep creating lift the faster it goes,,,,don't they all?

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Re: new front wings that don't create more lift at higher speeds

Postby elguapo » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:20 am

that is the problem with surfing bigger waves (10+ feet) on foils...

smaller waves/ocean swelldouble overhead or smaller).. is pretty easy to stay in pocket on modern foil wings
you start playing on double overhead or bigger.. you need more speed. and when a peak on a wave is damn near vertical.. it wont not matter how much you stomp the front of the board when the foil is out of the water (ie you need speed to stay in pocket)

chubanga's racing wings...
imo.. might be the best big wave/best tow surf foils that ever was..
that stability at speed..the lack of drag and the fact ventilating it does not equal an auto crash. (which is the reason moses/lift/et al "imitate" them with their own "high aspect" new wings)
Image




i know Laird's kauai crew uses lift's fastest wing (surf 60 v2)
Image




imo, we are entering the golden age of "bigger" wave foil surfing.. any wing made for speed opens up so many opportunities. i'm curious of the potential of reducing the drag of an efoil with folding props will increasing stability at speed with a super low HA foil such as a chubanga








..obsolete shapes such as the 633 shapes struggle more because of pitchy-ness and being general unstable at all speed (as compared to other premium wings)...in addition to performing poorly at speed.

tl; dr version:
imo, yes, it is necessary to shim your surf foil set-ups to the speed/style of riding you will be doing
Last edited by elguapo on Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: new front wings that don't create more lift at higher speeds

Postby lederhosen » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:42 am

elguapo wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:20 am
that is a problem with surfing bigger (10+ feet) on foils...

smaller waves/ocean swelldouble overhead or smaller).. pretty easy to stay in pocket on modern foil wings
you start playing on double overhead or bigger.. you need more speed. and when a peak on a wave is damn near vertical.. it wont not matter how much you stomp the front of the board when the foil is out of the water (you need speed to stay in pocket)

chubanga's racing wings...
imo.. might be the big wave/best tow surf foils that ever was..
the stability at speed, lack of drag and the fact ventilating it does not equal an auto crash. (which is the reason moses/lift/et al them with their own "high aspect" new wings)
Image




i know Laird's kauai crew uses lift's fastest wing (surf 60 v2)
Image




imo, we are entering the golden age of "bigger" wave foil surfing.. any wing made for speed opens up so many opportunities. i'm curious of the potential of reducing the drag of an efoil with folding props will increasing stability at speed with a super low HA foil such as a chubanga








..obsolete shapes such as the 633 shapes struggle more because of pitchy-ness and being general unstable at all speed (as compared to other premium wings)...in addition to performing poorly as speed.

tl; dr version:
imo, yes, it is necessary to shim your surf foil set-ups to the speed/style of riding you will be doing
It looks like most producers are bringing out either higher aspect or thinner profile wings recently.
Will a higher aspect wing with a thinner profile create less frontfoot pressure too or are they just faster and stall earlier?

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Re: new front wings that don't create more lift at higher speeds

Postby AndersP » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:37 pm

It' all about getting the frontwing and stab forces in balance.

The wing will dive down at higher speeds
The stab is there to avoid that and keep everything more stable. If the stab creates more downforce than the forward tipping of the wing you have to have more weight on the front foot the faster you go.

If you have a smaller stab with less downforce you get less lift on the wing. The smaller the stab is, the less you have to push down. The prize you pay is low speed stability.

You can also have a not so small stab with less downforce angle. Better slowspeed stability but harder to control in high speed.

The fuselage length also affects how stable the ride is.
The longer the fuselage is, the stronger the stabforces will be.

In the best of worlds the the stab has the right size, shape and angle to create neutral platform in any speed.

The kitefoil racers seems to have a stable ride from 15 to 35 knots. Their superwide stance may contradict that...
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Re: new front wings that don't create more lift at higher speeds

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:00 pm

True - it is all about having the right trim, not too much lift down from the stab.

Some has this by default, others dont, but can be shimmed.

Also, if you ride strapped, some use the same mast position for different sized wings, using the same stab.
That wont work well, unless the front wing aoa is changed also :roll:

8) Peter
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