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One Strut Kites comparison

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rnelias
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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby rnelias » Wed May 05, 2021 3:52 am

vitaum wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:25 pm
I usually foil in a lake right in the middle of São Paulo (big city), which has the worst wind possible: gusty, very variable and very light... But usually the problem is that it ranges from 10 knots to less than 4...
So what I do is I self rescue, and as you said, I use the LEI kite as a sail to go to one of the shores.
Thanks a lot for your opinion!
Hi Vitaum, just another brazilian here...

I've been foiling in Guanabara's Bay here in Rio, where the wind ranges from 7-12k in the low season, like now. The wind here usually drops all of a suden when it looses alignment with the bay's opening to the ocean. I have Duotone Rebels (9 and 12m) which I've used to learn hydrofoil but -- as you might guess, have horrible low-end -- Ozone Reo 8m, Alpha 8m and Flysurfer Soul 12m (foil kite).

I'm 70kg and have been using a Rapina's wing, similar to Okes's Jandaia or Moses Onda 633 (as reference for other riders around the world). Most of the times I can foil in the 10kt range using Reo or Alpha, both are amazing kites with excelent low end. The Alpha weights just 2kg (!), however, when the wind drops bellow 10kt, I usually prefer the Soul 12m with a PFD. My furthest rides go up to Rio x Niteroi's bridge, about 5km in straight line, but we must go upwing to there.

My 8m Alpha can lift itself in about 7-8kt and is super-easy to relaunch. I can get going with this marginal wind but it's not easy to start. I think just an Alpha 10m would cover all my wind range for foiling, however, Ozone kites are not easy to find here in Brazil and new they're expensive like Cores and Duotones.

espero ter ajudado. Abraços, Renato!

p.s.: it may sound strange a Reo and Alpha, both 8m in my quiver but this Reo I've bought second hand, with a bunch of patches, for a dirty price and, even though, love this kite for foiling :lol:

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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby rquintella » Wed May 05, 2021 4:29 am

PoweredbyNorth wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:33 pm
vitaum wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:21 pm

The conclusion is that I shouldn´t buy a one strut kite and just keep my contra 13m 3 struts, because a 11m one strut won´t give me much better low end and the short wind range of one strut kites will kill the benefit... right?
I do not agree with this conclusion, certainly not in your case! Looks like I am a similar level foiler than you, but a bit heavier (95kg). When I started foiling last year I used my 3 strut Neo's, the biggest being a 9. In light winds, as long as the Neo is in the air, it's fine, but relaunching will be very hard or even impossible. And I hate to swim with my gear, so relaunch ability is very important in my opinion.

That is why for light wind foiling I switched to a 11m Mono (2021 model). In the meantime I also switched to a set of Neo SLS kites. Please note that a 11m Mono is lighter than a 8m Neo SLS. Relaunch in light winds (9 knots) is perfectly ok.

Someone in this thread mentioned that you are easily overpowered, which in general I think is true. My experience is that with foiling the range per kite size is a lot smaller then on a surfboard or twintip.

This is more or less how my kites work for me:

Foiling
9-12 knots Mono 11
12-15 knots Neo SLS 8
15-18 knots Neo SLS 6
18-25 knots Neo SLS 5

Surfboard
15-20 knots Mono 11
18-24 knots Neo SLS 8
22-30 knots Neo SLS 6
28-45 knots Neo SLS 5

Twintip
15-22 knots Mono 11 (works amazingly well with a twintip too!)
20-30 knots Neo SLS 8
I suggested that he keeps the Contra instead of going to a 1 strut and get a 9m drifter. The reason is because kites are very expensive in Brazil. I’m not sure it would be worth the investment of selling his Contra to get another Contra 1 strut.

I have a similar set up to yours with less kites. I have a 13 mono (mistake, should have bought the 11) and a 9m Neo SLS. Will probably get a 7m Neo as well.

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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby windybrit » Wed May 05, 2021 11:31 pm

Well understood , thanks.
I rarely buy v1 of anything if I can avoid it ;)
So if the Alpha is choice #3 then I’m curious what the first two are. I btw want more foil oriented kites but when I travel want to be able to ride waves too and don’t recon the Ultra is so good for that. I am interested in the new OR Roam Hybrid (when it finally arrives)

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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby elguapo » Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm

windybrit wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 11:31 pm
Well understood , thanks.
I rarely buy v1 of anything if I can avoid it ;)
So if the Alpha is choice #3 then I’m curious what the first two are. I btw want more foil oriented kites but when I travel want to be able to ride waves too and don’t recon the Ultra is so good for that. I am interested in the new OR Roam Hybrid (when it finally arrives)
#1
a RAM air (foil) kite
higher aspects for speed.. low aspect kites/foils for surf style.


#2
a strutless kite

#3
a single strut

the foil kites tend to be more lightweight, more power/area and have better lightwind and drift (turn off pull) capabilities..easier to travel since you can use smaller kites and wont need a pumo.
strutless tend to be lighter(better lightwind), and drift better than strut kites.


the primary reason people want single struts for foiling, imo, is "fear".
they are scared they can't relaunch a foil or strutless kite...

..which to me is nonsense.
most folks learning to foil already tend have pretty good kite skills. they rarely put kites in the water..
certain kites i tend to always see in the water.. an ozone alpha is not one of them.

the best kite to use for foiling with a surf style hydrofoil is a peak4 at the moment.

nothing packs smaller.
hardly nothing beats the power/size (you'll often ride a size 3/4m while tablet riders are on 12m and single struts are on 8m)
nothing will stay in the air in less wind..nothing drifts/turns off better
you literally have to steer the kite into the water to get it out the air.
to me...a peak4 on short lines is the ideal setup for going upwind to ocean swell..and then riding those growing waves back over the reefs.

the negative (ie fear) of a peak4.
yes. relaunching ability is poor (to be nice)



i understand knowing how to self rescue with your kite..
but your pump kite is not supposed to be your PFD.. stop relying on it
... just where an impact vest or invest in an restube pfd like waterman in literally every single other sport does.




but again, you already have pretty good kite skills
just dont steer your kite into the water.. easy.



all this is just personal opinion..
however.....


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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu May 06, 2021 12:47 pm

yesterday I was foiling with my Liquid Force Solo , 6.5m ; I like this kite a lot : single strut, but still better l/D ratio than my airush one 2012; impressive power for it size ; almost similar to my Airush one 9m; and very good agility
I was on my 1200 cm2 foil with a very very gusty wind: kitesrufers waiting on the beach due to the bad wind : on (35 knots) / off (10 knots) in a minute;

The kite was perfect for those conditions :
-stable at zenith when sheet out ( thanks to the flapping)
- good depower
- excellent drift for downwind smooth jibes ( kite upward)
- relaunch is excellent as well

I must say I also like it in flat water on a foil (very agile) but also with a TT for jumps (even if one strutt, but due to my light weight I do not charge it a lot) ;
last month with my TT :

Unfortunately it is not the lightest of single strutt for very light wind but with 6.5 m2 it is not the priority since sweet spot is around 15 knots on a hydrofoil.

rnelias
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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby rnelias » Thu May 06, 2021 3:54 pm

elguapo wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm
windybrit wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 11:31 pm
Well understood , thanks.
I rarely buy v1 of anything if I can avoid it ;)
So if the Alpha is choice #3 then I’m curious what the first two are. I btw want more foil oriented kites but when I travel want to be able to ride waves too and don’t recon the Ultra is so good for that. I am interested in the new OR Roam Hybrid (when it finally arrives)
#1
a RAM air (foil) kite
higher aspects for speed.. low aspect kites/foils for surf style.


#2
a strutless kite

#3
a single strut

the foil kites tend to be more lightweight, more power/area and have better lightwind and drift (turn off pull) capabilities..easier to travel since you can use smaller kites and wont need a pumo.
strutless tend to be lighter(better lightwind), and drift better than strut kites.


the primary reason people want single struts for foiling, imo, is "fear".
they are scared they can't relaunch a foil or strutless kite...

..which to me is nonsense.
most folks learning to foil already tend have pretty good kite skills. they rarely put kites in the water..
certain kites i tend to always see in the water.. an ozone alpha is not one of them.
Talking for myself as I have a Soul 12m and an Alpha 8m. The "fear" is true in my case because I only chose to foil on Soul when the wind is really marginal (6-10kt) and can drop all of a suden. It's not a matter of kite skill, if the wind drops to 2-3 knots, no foil kite will stay in the air besides a Peak4 that starts to fly with 3 knots.

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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby drsurf » Thu May 06, 2021 5:45 pm

If you're considering a single strut and you have a surf foil, try a Peak4, especially in sizes 6m, 5m, 4m & 3m.
They are incredibly addictive and no other kite can match their performance characteristics. It's no surprise that Flysurfer hasn't been able to keep up with the demand since they were launched over 2 years ago and Horst Sergio started this thread viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2401224

As for people feeling that as a non water specific kite it may not be relaunchable if they hit the water...? Not as big an issue as you think. As elguapo says, they have to be dived into the water, they are easy to keep in the air in the lightest of lulls. I have customers with have only the most basic foiling skills who have tried, (and then bought Peak4 kites), as the Peak4 just makes foiling much easier with such responsive power & depower. And you will be out on a Peak4 often 1/2 to 1/3 the size of LEI kiters. Yes, foiling with a 4m when TT riders need 17m is not uncommon.

You should never go out further than you would like to swim but in the last 6 months of myself foiling with Peak4's none have hit the water. Even dealing with a large shorebreak which can be deadly with an LEI when you get pushed toward the kite and the lines go slack...

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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby airsail » Thu May 06, 2021 8:57 pm

My problem with the Peak was when learning new stuff. It was perfect for just normal riding, easy transitions and swell riding. But when I started learning tacks that’s when the swims started, luckily I learnt never to be too far offshore but it wasn’t unusual to have 2 swim ins a session.
Peaks are fast, I had the 4 mtr, and can turn 180° faster and go into a death dive. It was so easy to loose track of the kite when you working on your tack, crashing in unusual positions with no chance of maintaining line tension. I went back to strutless, at least you can relaunch near 100% and I can now tack with foot change.

rnelias
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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby rnelias » Thu May 06, 2021 9:24 pm

airsail wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:57 pm
My problem with the Peak was when learning new stuff. It was perfect for just normal riding, easy transitions and swell riding. But when I started learning tacks that’s when the swims started, luckily I learnt never to be too far offshore but it wasn’t unusual to have 2 swim ins a session.
Peaks are fast, I had the 4 mtr, and can turn 180° faster and go into a death dive. It was so easy to loose track of the kite when you working on your tack, crashing in unusual positions with no chance of maintaining line tension. I went back to strutless, at least you can relaunch near 100% and I can now tack with foot change.
it's an interesting point... a suitable kite to learn new stuff. I'm a newbie in hydrofoil and now I've been training gybes. The Alpha and Reo make my life my easier than the Soul that I avoid to use the foil kite. It's my first foil kite and I'm still getting used. It's too slow to change direction and I'm not confident to downloop foil kites yet, however, from what I've been reading, foil kites are good to learn tacks as they have more vertical lift and help with the "zero gravity" effect to foot changes.

I wish I could try a Peak4 but we don't have flysurfer resellers here in Brazil to promote demo days. It would not be hard to buy them in Europe or US and ship to here, as they're light as feather, however, it would cost about the price of an good used 3-struct kite here, thus, it's not attractive from the price point of view.

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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Postby airsail » Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm

Peaks have no lift during tacks, well not the smaller ones. Double surface foil kites a great for tacking, slower moving and heaps of lift for foot change. But learning without a foot change is fine on any LEI, but easier if your powered as you probably won’t require a kite loop to get going the other way on toeside.


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