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Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:23 am
by joriws
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:28 pm
jatem wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:48 pm
If you're swimming long distances, why would you want to drag a LEI? At least you can roll up a peak4 and put it on your board or in a backpack for the paddle back, and I presume you wear a pfd.
With a LEI, you just sit on your board, and let the LEI drag you even if ever so slowly, ashore.

Also, the very fact that you GOT some buoancy from the kite
I wonder Peter as you are long term kiter and I know you at least had closed cell foil kites that you cannot comprehend that foil kite can be used similar downwind sail as LEI kite. I know basic LEI self-rescue is a bit different with kite turned "up" more like normal riding orientation.

Sit on your board and grab wing tips and if there is any residue wind it will grab the kite canopy and sail you downwind. I've done it once but without board, just on my PFD and kite-sail and bespite of beliefs kite is also visible for rescuers.

If there is some wind it even helps on keeping over-pressure inside the kite i.e. inserting new air. If the wind goes dead calm the kite will keep it's air (Flysurfers at least, don't know Elfs I think you had) for tens of minutes. Only thing which was true on your writing is that you cannot use foilkite as buoyancy aid as your weight on kite will help push air out. Take a Restube with you if you see that as a problem.

If we take from the video on this thread. At this stage if there is 1m/s wind, grab the wing tips and try to lift leading edge up to create more wind resistance and also engage ram-air vents to more air for infinite downwind surfing. If wing tip grabbing does not work you can also try with central A-lines but wing tips are more convenient. And if wind comes back unroll lines and launch the kite. Just think yourself the least effort to get to safety, swimming with board is not probably least effort for kilometer swim.
Screenshot_2021-04-29 Flysurfer Foil Kite - Water Self Rescue - YouTube.png

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:19 pm
by elmarco
vitaum wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:21 pm
downunder wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:27 pm
Except,

airush Ultra beats all of them ;)

Yes, Im biased, but I can and I DO outjump many with Ultra v2 9m. We talking 25kn plus.
Ive never seen anyone jumping any good height with above listed kites. Actually any heights.

Which means Utra is also good for TT as well as for foiling.

D.
Good to know, sometimes I can see some used Airush selling around here, will pay more attention
Thanks!
I 2nd the Airush Ultra. great one strut kite.

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:57 pm
by downunder
joriws wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:23 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:28 pm
jatem wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:48 pm
If you're swimming long distances, why would you want to drag a LEI? At least you can roll up a peak4 and put it on your board or in a backpack for the paddle back, and I presume you wear a pfd.
With a LEI, you just sit on your board, and let the LEI drag you even if ever so slowly, ashore.

Also, the very fact that you GOT some buoancy from the kite
I wonder Peter as you are long term kiter and I know you at least had closed cell foil kites that you cannot comprehend that foil kite can be used similar downwind sail as LEI kite. I know basic LEI self-rescue is a bit different with kite turned "up" more like normal riding orientation.

Sit on your board and grab wing tips and if there is any residue wind it will grab the kite canopy and sail you downwind. I've done it once but without board, just on my PFD and kite-sail and bespite of beliefs kite is also visible for rescuers.

If there is some wind it even helps on keeping over-pressure inside the kite i.e. inserting new air. If the wind goes dead calm the kite will keep it's air (Flysurfers at least, don't know Elfs I think you had) for tens of minutes. Only thing which was true on your writing is that you cannot use foilkite as buoyancy aid as your weight on kite will help push air out. Take a Restube with you if you see that as a problem.

If we take from the video on this thread. At this stage if there is 1m/s wind, grab the wing tips and try to lift leading edge up to create more wind resistance and also engage ram-air vents to more air for infinite downwind surfing. If wing tip grabbing does not work you can also try with central A-lines but wing tips are more convenient. And if wind comes back unroll lines and launch the kite. Just think yourself the least effort to get to safety, swimming with board is not probably least effort for kilometer swim.

Screenshot_2021-04-29 Flysurfer Foil Kite - Water Self Rescue - YouTube.png

This is all good but u forgot the biggest difference:

- no matter what, the kite will take water. Heaps of it.
- Sometimes more than 3 people is needed to get the kite out of water, or risk ripped internal fabric
- and third, why highjacking the thread when OP asks for one struts?

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:57 am
by mar menor
I have used most one strut kites on the market,in my opinion,Ozone Alpha v1 is the best.Even better the v2 version will be out soon,if there are only minor changes it will be fantastic.

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:33 pm
by PoweredbyNorth
vitaum wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:21 pm

The conclusion is that I shouldn´t buy a one strut kite and just keep my contra 13m 3 struts, because a 11m one strut won´t give me much better low end and the short wind range of one strut kites will kill the benefit... right?
I do not agree with this conclusion, certainly not in your case! Looks like I am a similar level foiler than you, but a bit heavier (95kg). When I started foiling last year I used my 3 strut Neo's, the biggest being a 9. In light winds, as long as the Neo is in the air, it's fine, but relaunching will be very hard or even impossible. And I hate to swim with my gear, so relaunch ability is very important in my opinion.

That is why for light wind foiling I switched to a 11m Mono (2021 model). In the meantime I also switched to a set of Neo SLS kites. Please note that a 11m Mono is lighter than a 8m Neo SLS. Relaunch in light winds (9 knots) is perfectly ok.

Someone in this thread mentioned that you are easily overpowered, which in general I think is true. My experience is that with foiling the range per kite size is a lot smaller then on a surfboard or twintip.

This is more or less how my kites work for me:

Foiling
9-12 knots Mono 11
12-15 knots Neo SLS 8
15-18 knots Neo SLS 6
18-25 knots Neo SLS 5

Surfboard
15-20 knots Mono 11
18-24 knots Neo SLS 8
22-30 knots Neo SLS 6
28-45 knots Neo SLS 5

Twintip
15-22 knots Mono 11 (works amazingly well with a twintip too!)
20-30 knots Neo SLS 8

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:20 am
by Peter_Frank
downunder wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:57 pm
joriws wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:23 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:28 pm


With a LEI, you just sit on your board, and let the LEI drag you even if ever so slowly, ashore.

Also, the very fact that you GOT some buoancy from the kite
I wonder Peter as you are long term kiter and I know you at least had closed cell foil kites that you cannot comprehend that foil kite can be used similar downwind sail as LEI kite. I know basic LEI self-rescue is a bit different with kite turned "up" more like normal riding orientation.

Sit on your board and grab wing tips and if there is any residue wind it will grab the kite canopy and sail you downwind. I've done it once but without board, just on my PFD and kite-sail and bespite of beliefs kite is also visible for rescuers.

If there is some wind it even helps on keeping over-pressure inside the kite i.e. inserting new air. If the wind goes dead calm the kite will keep it's air (Flysurfers at least, don't know Elfs I think you had) for tens of minutes. Only thing which was true on your writing is that you cannot use foilkite as buoyancy aid as your weight on kite will help push air out. Take a Restube with you if you see that as a problem.

If we take from the video on this thread. At this stage if there is 1m/s wind, grab the wing tips and try to lift leading edge up to create more wind resistance and also engage ram-air vents to more air for infinite downwind surfing. If wing tip grabbing does not work you can also try with central A-lines but wing tips are more convenient. And if wind comes back unroll lines and launch the kite. Just think yourself the least effort to get to safety, swimming with board is not probably least effort for kilometer swim.

Screenshot_2021-04-29 Flysurfer Foil Kite - Water Self Rescue - YouTube.png

This is all good but u forgot the biggest difference:

- no matter what, the kite will take water. Heaps of it.
- Sometimes more than 3 people is needed to get the kite out of water, or risk ripped internal fabric
- and third, why highjacking the thread when OP asks for one struts?
joriws, indeed it could be possible in some conditions, but not very "safe" IMO, and I agree with downunder.
The video shows a heavier kite which takes in water slower than typical UL foil kites, which we have to use when light wind.
Say I am out with my 15 m2 C.A.Pulsion in 5 knots of wind, and the wind drops - then I can not foil nor relaunch.

And it does not necessarily end on the water "nicely on its back", meaning water gets inside even quicker - also in general the thinner lighter kite materials takes in water faster - so the drift to shore which is slow even if close, will have the kite take in water.
Must say I dont believe I could do like in the video if 3 knots of wind - as then there could be even less at the surface.
Getting all small bridles tucked away, avoiding messing with your foil, can also be a challenge and risk.
Finally, WHEN you get to shore, no matter if on the "folding" method or not, the water means you have to be extremely careful in order to get ashore, avoiding the "kite crunching" shorebreak no matter how small it is.
So you have to stand for a long long time draining water out - which in winter conditions is a no go...

Of course all above is easier with smaller foil kites and more wind, true, but there is a higher risk and more work/trouble compared to a LEI, when you have to get ashore - which is the OP reason for not choosing a foil kite.

8) Peter

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:28 pm
by Topaz
I foil on LEI's.

It looks to me that LEI's are safer than foil kits in self rescue situations, as you have the option of leaving it inflated and used it as a sail, or you can deflate it, roll it, and put it in a bag as the guy in the video.
The LEI would deflate faster. And eventually, you could deflate it partially to make the rolling easy. Partially as in deflating the main bladder only half way, or leaving the one strut inflated.
But if you have to swim, the inflated LEI will help you sail to the beach, I would keep it inflated. Unless you are in off shore winds, of course, but it looks like OP is safe to come out on any shore of his lake.
If the wind comes back, your LEI can be re launched.

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:32 pm
by Jose
PoweredbyNorth wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:33 pm
vitaum wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:21 pm

The conclusion is that I shouldn´t buy a one strut kite and just keep my contra 13m 3 struts, because a 11m one strut won´t give me much better low end and the short wind range of one strut kites will kill the benefit... right?
I do not agree with this conclusion, certainly not in your case! Looks like I am a similar level foiler than you, but a bit heavier (95kg). When I started foiling last year I used my 3 strut Neo's, the biggest being a 9. In light winds, as long as the Neo is in the air, it's fine, but relaunching will be very hard or even impossible. And I hate to swim with my gear, so relaunch ability is very important in my opinion.

That is why for light wind foiling I switched to a 11m Mono (2021 model). In the meantime I also switched to a set of Neo SLS kites. Please note that a 11m Mono is lighter than a 8m Neo SLS. Relaunch in light winds (9 knots) is perfectly ok.

Someone in this thread mentioned that you are easily overpowered, which in general I think is true. My experience is that with foiling the range per kite size is a lot smaller then on a surfboard or twintip.

This is more or less how my kites work for me:

Foiling
9-12 knots Mono 11
12-15 knots Neo SLS 8
15-18 knots Neo SLS 6
18-25 knots Neo SLS 5


I need adivice,

I want to buy a mono but i don´t the correct size to me.

9 or 11 mono 2021 , 80 kg moses 633 and 590

I want to ride from 8 to 15kts, at moment i use my rebel 9m 2021 with 66 and i ride with 10kts to 16kts.

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:54 pm
by windybrit
elguapo wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:57 pm
out of those 3..
i'd pick the ozone.

...just wait for the new version.
Have you ridden the Alpha v1 ? I note you suggest waiting for the v2, does this mean there’s something wrong with v1?
I am getting more into foiling and want to buy kites biased for this discipline. I’m 68kg and thinking a 10 & 6 ............ ?
TIA

Re: One Strut Kites comparison

Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:12 am
by elguapo
ozone (unlike flysurfer).. seems to listen to user feedback
...their version 2s tend incorporate that to improve v1 (when when v1 was already class leading)

a very recent example would be the improvement with ozone's wasp from v1 to v2..

if you can get it cheaper.. get the v1 alpha... nothing wrong with it.
..the v2 is an improvement on what is already the best single strut kite, imo.

/however..to me.. the best "single strut" is like being the tallest midget
//a single strut kite would be my 3rd choice for foiling (and then only the smallest sizes)