Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

[Oldman_Dave]

If my recall of tech talks are correct, the axis carbon mast is only 15% lighter than the equivalent Aly. This weight saving occurs because you can vary the width of the carbon mast and make it beefier where it's needed (at the top) whereas Aly can only extruded in a uniform shape. The carbon has slightly more spring and is apparently a livelier feel.

I've always been happy the carbon masts, however I'm looking to buy the carbon with my next upgrade order. Why? Because I'm happy with the brand and happy with my preferred length and so I'll pay the extra to save that 15% and be on the best gear I can. Upgraditis I suppose.

[sonny2727]

.this is not 2010 when people are figuring out stuff

Have aluminum masts evolved much?

I mean masts in general haven’t really changed much. Carbon was figured out a while ago too.

Only in 2019 Moses built wood core masts..that partly explain the wobbly old Moses masts

[Kamikuza]

Have aluminum masts evolved much?

I mean masts in general haven’t really changed much. Carbon was figured out a while ago too.

Not a lot to play with. Profile, wall thickness, internal bracing, chord length... I think the latest crop are actually properly engineered and not just left over louvers

[airsail]

Have aluminum masts evolved much?

I mean masts in general haven’t really changed much. Carbon was figured out a while ago too.

Not a lot to play with. Profile, wall thickness, internal bracing, chord length... I think the latest crop are actually properly engineered and not just left over louvers

Naish went out on a limb last year and made a very thin wall mast, but with no internal bracing and bonded ends, they had some failures. This year, S26 alloys have internal webs and foam filled, they are lighter than the carbon and composite offerings but expensive as they come complete with bonded base and lower plates.
But their composite masts are almost the same price so unless you chasing the lightest mast why would you bother.

[Kamikuza]

If my recall of tech talks are correct, the axis carbon mast is only 15% lighter than the equivalent Aly. This weight saving occurs because you can vary the width of the carbon mast and make it beefier where it's needed (at the top) whereas Aly can only extruded in a uniform shape. The carbon has slightly more spring and is apparently a livelier feel.

I've always been happy the carbon masts, however I'm looking to buy the carbon with my next upgrade order. Why? Because I'm happy with the brand and happy with my preferred length and so I'll pay the extra to save that 15% and be on the best gear I can. Upgraditis I suppose.

Unless they've changed production methods, the Axis carbon masts are 68 layers of pre-preg.

They had some tests done at the engineering department at a university:
Taking the original Axis 15mm thick mast as the baseline, the carbon mast is 110% stiffer, the 16mm 136%, and the 19mm is 224% stiffer. I was happy enough on the 75cm 16mm mast, but for longevity I went with the 19mm...

[Kamikuza]

Naish went out on a limb last year and made a very thin wall mast, but with no internal bracing and bonded ends, they had some failures. This year, S26 alloys have internal webs and foam filled, they are lighter than the carbon and composite offerings but expensive as they come complete with bonded base and lower plates.
But their composite masts are almost the same price so unless you chasing the lightest mast why would you bother.

Is that the same company that was doing mixed carbon/alu masts? They were the same price as carbon too, but lighter than aluminum and stiffer than carbon.

Now the cat's out of the bag -- Naish and NP were the two brands I saw with folded masts.

[FLandOBX]

...Short RDB 90/70cm masts which I ride are stiff.
RDB and Lift carbon masts are $600 shipped....

Grigory, does RDB have a U.S. distributor or do you buy direct from the manufacturer?

[grigorib]

...Short RDB 90/70cm masts which I ride are stiff.
RDB and Lift carbon masts are $600 shipped....

Grigory, does RDB have a U.S. distributor or do you buy direct from the manufacturer?

Let me know what you need.
PMd you what I have in stock

[airsail]

Naish went out on a limb last year and made a very thin wall mast, but with no internal bracing and bonded ends, they had some failures. This year, S26 alloys have internal webs and foam filled, they are lighter than the carbon and composite offerings but expensive as they come complete with bonded base and lower plates.
But their composite masts are almost the same price so unless you chasing the lightest mast why would you bother.

Is that the same company that was doing mixed carbon/alu masts? They were the same price as carbon too, but lighter than aluminum and stiffer than carbon.

Now the cat's out of the bag -- Naish and NP were the two brands I saw with folded masts.

Yes, here in Oz Naish will warranty any S25 mast with the silver top and bottom adapters. Bit of a stuff up, testing should be done by real life riders, not lightweight team riders.

[OzBungy]

Just doing a quick sum, the cost of my mast is $1.40 cents an hour. Mast and foil together is $2.80. Complete board, foil and mast is $4 an hour. I got a big discount and a custom carbon board because I exchanged emails with the maker. That's just my most used kite. I do have other foils and masts and boards, but I rarely use those things, mainly in specific sets of conditions.

I disassemble every session so I am very set on simplicity and ease of use. Full carbon everything. Deep tuttle mast and one piece foil, tail and fuselage. 4 screws and everything slots together with a positive connection.

The only negative of all this is reduced choice in foils and boards to an extent. My kite foiling gear is awesome so that's not a problem. If I wanted to chase max speed then all the premium products are one piece glider, deep tuttle, full carbon so that's not an issue. For wing surfing I am using GoFoil. It works just fine and is reasonably priced. It would be nice if they had a greater range of products on offer.

I am a bit suspicious of systems where you have a heap of screws holding the foil onto the fuselage and interchangeable stuff. It all seems so structurally unsound. All my gear the screws are there for security only. The physical structure is what holds it all together. Nothing can come off unless there is a total structural failure. That's never happened.

I am not convinced by the idea of mixing and matching foils and tails and fuselages. I have that on my wing foiling kit. It usually only takes 15 minutes of riding to adapt to a new configuration.

I have a suspicion that short board surf/wing foiling, particularly strapped, might require tuning tweaks in mast position. I might go down that path or not depending on how things turn out.