Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
sonny2727
Medium Poster
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:21 pm
Gear: North, Ozone, Taaroa, Shinn, Flysurfer, Moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby sonny2727 » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:04 am

good old debate ...I have Slingshot aluminuim 60 and 90 masts. Moses 111 and Tarroa 95. My favorite by far is Moses 111 and I've done 600 jumps with sloppy landings. I'm 70 kg and ride a small race wing with 111 so I haven't honestly noticed the stiffness difference with Slingshot, but I do notice the weight and it matters when jumping. That being said I got 2 Slingshot masts for 350$ just so I can have shallow water cheap sh*it and it's money well spent and will do it again. But for my main mast always go for longer carbon - second hand $1000 bucks and amazing value for money. Very happy with both setups. Now if you are a heavy weight and use big surf wings it could be a different equation. As a general rule, after your first beginner stuff, go for carbon - life is short.

User avatar
FLandOBX
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1525
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 1:58 am
Local Beach: Hatteras Island, North Carolina, USA
Central Florida, USA
Style: Freestyle, Airstyle, Hydrofoil
Gear: Cabrinha Apollo, FS Speed 4, FS Soul, Axis Ltd 132, RRD Poison 135, SS Ankle Biter, Moses 679 & 590, LF Galaxy 4'2"
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby FLandOBX » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:45 am

merl wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:33 am
FLandOBX wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:00 pm
merl wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:33 pm
From a European perspective I noticed that a gong full carbon setup costs around EUR1000 and a Core SLC foil with aluminium mast is EUR1400. The gong setup is not very light but it is certainly stiff.
Interesting, but I don't think we can draw any conclusions from this comparison.
It was the OP who started saying that carbon was too expensive and then starts talking about Core aluminium stuff. So the conclusion is that if you think carbon is too expensive, it makes sense to look at the range of prices available in each material. I just chose the cheapest decent carbon mast vs the most expensive aluminium one to show that there is a massive overlap in price range between the two mast materials.
:thumb: Got it. Makes sense to me now. Thanks for clarifying.

tmcfarla
Frequent Poster
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:35 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby tmcfarla » Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:41 pm

I have a carbon Lift mast, and have used a few different aluminum masts. They weigh about the same, as far as I can tell, stiffness is about the same (I don't have testing apparatus). At light weight, without huge wings, or really long masts, I don't think there is any meaningful difference between the two for masts.

Fuselage is a different story though. Aluminum fuselage is very heavy compared to carbon, and on a long swing arm. You definitely feel the weight of an aluminum fuselage while riding, and while carrying to the beach. I also bent two aluminum fuselages by running into sandy bottom, while my carbon fuselages have been repeatedly pounded into mud without any sign of damage.

I use a carbon mast because it fits with the wings I like (Lift). If they made an aluminum mast to go with their wings, I'd have that instead. But I think carbon really makes sense for fuse/wings

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3042
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/695/730/600/637 wings and 310/273/230/425/420 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, Rally 7m, SST 7m, W695 wing, 273 sq.cm stabilizer, 70cm mast
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 275 times
Been thanked: 394 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby grigorib » Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:17 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:57 am
grigorib wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:23 am
Slingshot 101cm mast 4.1 lbs
Slingshot 91cm mast 3.3 lbs
RDB 90cm mast 3.52 lbs
RDB 70cm mast 3.04 lbs
Moses 71cm mast 2.7 lbs
Moses 91cm mast 3.4 lbs
Slingshot 111cm mast 4.97 lbs
Slingshot 42” (105cm) mast 4.1 lbs
Moses 101cm mast 4.24 lbs
Moses 82cm mast 3.16 lbs

I weighted mine. The only light aluminum masts are there those which bend.
Aluminum is cheap beginner/amateur junk. Bulky, heavy and I’m shipping my 80cm aluminum mast tomorrow to stay carbon only
Which ones are carbon? I'm assuming the Moses ones are, but we know they're only a carbon wrap. I remember my Hoverglide weighed almost twice as much as my first Axis foil and was indeed bendy.

And stiffness? I've seen popular brand all-carbon foils on the beach ... wobbling back and forth in the wind. I don't know how those are rideable.
All except below two are carbon
Slingshot 80cm mast (30” Hoverglide +adapter) 5.46 lb
Slingshot 28” Hoverglide mast + Moses adapter 5.25 lbs

I ride Slingshot 101, RDB 90 and RDB 70 - those are quite stiff masts

User avatar
Kamikuza
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6783
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
Local Beach: Sabae Beach
Favorite Beaches: Ol' Stinky
Gear: This, that, the other
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:58 pm

grigorib wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:17 pm
quite stiff
Yes thank you very scientific :D

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3042
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/695/730/600/637 wings and 310/273/230/425/420 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, Rally 7m, SST 7m, W695 wing, 273 sq.cm stabilizer, 70cm mast
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 275 times
Been thanked: 394 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby grigorib » Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:07 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:58 pm
grigorib wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:17 pm
quite stiff
Yes thank you very scientific :D
I have no equipment to measure stiffness and I saw some noodles so I pick and ride what feels stiff and is not “moved by wind”.
Technically, very simply you can measure angle of twist when torque applied and bent when linear force applied. Both could be done in a garage, I know how but I didn’t do it and I won’t start that project just for fun.

Aluminum is stiff. Yet it ends up either prone to bend or pretty heavy. Some carbon is noodly (usually prototypes) but race carbon with wood core is stiff, thick profile carbon (Moses 82) is stiff. Short RDB 90/70cm masts which I ride are stiff.
RDB and Lift carbon masts are $600 shipped - it’s well justified extra $350 spent compared to aluminum.

Amount of effort and material which goes into carbon mast is significant and it’s rather $250 aluminum masts which are ripoffs

sonny2727
Medium Poster
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:21 pm
Gear: North, Ozone, Taaroa, Shinn, Flysurfer, Moses
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby sonny2727 » Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:41 pm

"race carbon with wood core is stiff" ..yes this why I don't recommend buying older Moses masts that are not wood core. You'd be surprised by the stiffness of the current crop of carbon masts ..this is not 2010 when people are figuring out stuff

User avatar
jumptheshark
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1912
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 339 times
Been thanked: 593 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:09 am

sonny2727 wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:41 pm
.this is not 2010 when people are figuring out stuff
Have aluminum masts evolved much?

I mean masts in general haven’t really changed much. Carbon was figured out a while ago too.

User avatar
Kamikuza
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6783
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
Local Beach: Sabae Beach
Favorite Beaches: Ol' Stinky
Gear: This, that, the other
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:15 am

grigorib wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:07 pm
Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:58 pm
grigorib wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:17 pm
quite stiff
Yes thank you very scientific :D
I have no equipment to measure stiffness and I saw some noodles so I pick and ride what feels stiff and is not “moved by wind”.
Technically, very simply you can measure angle of twist when torque applied and bent when linear force applied. Both could be done in a garage, I know how but I didn’t do it and I won’t start that project just for fun.

Aluminum is stiff. Yet it ends up either prone to bend or pretty heavy. Some carbon is noodly (usually prototypes) but race carbon with wood core is stiff, thick profile carbon (Moses 82) is stiff. Short RDB 90/70cm masts which I ride are stiff.
RDB and Lift carbon masts are $600 shipped - it’s well justified extra $350 spent compared to aluminum.

Amount of effort and material which goes into carbon mast is significant and it’s rather $250 aluminum masts which are ripoffs
So there's some degree of stiffness that you consider adequate, which seems to be the general consensus. Personally, I'm a bit unenthusiastic about going from 75 to 85 because of the additional wobble... although it greatly depends on the wing I'm using.

I think the wingfoiler guys with their enormous boards are the ones bending masts, fairly unusual AFAIK -- I can think of only a couple of instances and both were the board getting tumbled in the surf.

Good construction costs, which is why the good carbon ones are $1,000, weigh close to aluminum but still aren't as stiff. But $250 for an aluminum mast? That's more than $100 too expensive. Name and shame that brand!

I'd like to try a decent carbon mast, but am afraid I'll break it and have to replace it :D
These users thanked the author Kamikuza for the post:
airsail (Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:48 am)
Rating: 6.67%

User avatar
Ulrik
Medium Poster
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:00 am
Style: Freeride, Hydrofoil,Waveriding
Gear: Shinn BronQ CRB4
Groove Skate 130,
Nobile Kite skim
Kitech FreeRS
Naish Pivot
Gong Unik
GONG KITEFOIL ALLVATOR FREEWAVE
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Aluminium vs Carbon Mast - Cost vs Benefit

Postby Ulrik » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:45 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:51 am
deniska wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:28 am
how do you fix dings, scratches, whistling or ventilation on ALU mast?
You don't :lol: you're unlikely to damage the mast and if you do, throw it away and buy a new one -- they're the cheapest component in the setup.
Yep, a new 95 cm mast for my Gong setup is 79 EUR / 96 USD :thumb: https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/ ... -alu-mast/


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests