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Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

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JoelLikesFoil
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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby JoelLikesFoil » Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:09 pm

All, nice articulation above of why Peak + surf wing is the jam. Frankly, I don't think it matters too much which foil brand, so long as the wing is designed for surfing, you've got a large enough mast and it's high quality kit. Nice tight joints, a once piece ballsy carbon mast, etc. - really need a solid connection from your feet to the wing.

@ice: I got lucky and good advice from my local shop early on. I was already an experienced strapless rider before learning to foil, so after a few sessions on a LF Happy Foil I tried Moses 633 on a small carbon board. I went into the shop to buy the same and walked out with Slingshot Phantasm 633. In my opinion there are some small advantages of the Phantasm system (interchangeable fuse, wings, mast, stab; the wing is slightly tweaked; comes with bag and covers), but performance is pretty much the same. I have not tried any other similar grade rig, so I don't have anything else to compare to. In part, that is because I have not ever felt the need to...as I mentioned before, with the correct complete package I don't feel like anything is missing. THAT BEING SAID, due to moderate gear-head tendencies, I did just take delivery of the Phantasm 730 wing (which is allegedly even surfier) and their smaller fuse (which ought to make for more adroit turning). These will fit onto the common Phantasm mast and use same stab.

nixmatters
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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby nixmatters » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:52 pm

Been following the thread for a while and didn't want to chime in as my wave foil experience is little to none.
I've tried quite a few foils behind a boat and at a cable park and my favorite for tight carvy turns is the Cabrinha Carve wing, with stab at the most forward position. The Onda 633 is surely less carvy, even if it's a better overall front wing and has slightly lower stall speed. Just my 2¢

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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby sonny2727 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:01 pm

The problem with normal surf wings is they are too thick ...so 633 is different and you will notice it. Most wings are now designed for winging not kiting

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lederhosen
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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby lederhosen » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:34 pm

Has anybody tried a short fuselage in waves? Ketos makes one, but there might be others. Does it change the front foot pressure during fast rides, or does it need a different stab?

geron
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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby geron » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:32 am

I found this thred and thought a monofoil might be intresting for this topic

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jakemoore
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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby jakemoore » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:38 am

lederhosen wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:34 pm
Has anybody tried a short fuselage in waves? Ketos makes one, but there might be others. Does it change the front foot pressure during fast rides, or does it need a different stab?
Ketos is very balanced across parts so you may not be able to generalize. For example the mast connects a box not a track. Change to a bigger wing and the position is the same. Change to a smaller stabilo or fuselage and same position. Their 1200 Kool wing is much thinner than e.g. SAB 633 and so a different feeling.

I’m loving the short fuse and small stabilo with the 1200 Kool wing and especially for wave riding. The combo also make landing a jump easier because if you land stabilo first it does not kick the nose down so hard and fast. It’s harder to switch feet and the foot placement has to be more precise because the foil is reactive.

I don’t know that I would go shorter to allow more speed on a straight line or reduce front foot pressure at least with Ketos. Short fuse small stab is more to decrease stability and therefore the effort required to turn. It changes from a longboard feeling to a short board feeling in surf. Going from big to small stab and long to short fuse both make incremental changes in this direction.
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Peter_Frank
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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:06 am

Smaller front wings turns faster and feels agile.

BUT, they ride faster, so you dont turn more narrow really...

Bigger wings, low AR, can turn sharper because of this - but if too big, feels bad/wrong/slow.

Shorter fuselage, OR a smaller stab, works wonders in terms of getting the surf skate like quick carving feel.

I am using less than 200 cm2 rear wings on my kite hydrofoils, and around 200 cm2 on my wingfoils - this is an easy way to get a fun and lively foil :thumb:

Either buy a new small rear wing, or cut the tips off your existing one and sand it.

8) Peter

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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:30 am

Axis 660, Short fuselage (there are two shorter; I found the next length down just too twitchy) and 390 GAP for me. Using an 85 cm mast, and have added a 760 recently too. I have an Axis Foam 4'2" prototype, but actually prefer my Dwarfcraft 3'6" cos it's a bit lighter and "freer"...

I like the gull wing design as they don't tend to "sideslip" in carves, and have a powerful lift profile for low end amusement ... they really, really like to be carving; the 660 is a bit twitchy in a straight line but rock solid in a carve.

The 760 gives more light wind range and glide, and gives up very little maneuverability. I get over-powered quicker but like it for linking multiple S-turns on small waves and wind swell (I call it riding the wave) but the 660 is more fun for more aggressive attempts with a bit more wind to catch me.

mirza23454
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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby mirza23454 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:36 pm

A shorter fuselage made a huge difference in the agility of Naish wings. I also experimented with the 90cm and 55cm masts and found that 55cm turns much more easily and directly, is really really fun to ride, but does breach more easily of course.

I ditched my Naish setup after breaking a mast and then a fuselage riding a huge wing (maybe understandable) and now I have a new and surprising contender for favorite wing for this. Keep in mind I’m a beginner and I’ve never tried a w633 or Cloud9 or Ketos or Axis or Armstrong, which all seem like great surfy wings, my point of reference is just the Naish lineup.

Sabfoil/Moses w800+m92+fk647+s399. The front wing is 80cm wide with about 800cm2 surface area. The w800 has great low end for lightwind water start, a higher stall speed than bigger surf wings, great high end and upwind, it’s both somehow much more stable and much more direct and agile than the Naish wings. It carves and slides a lot like a surfskate or snowboard with a feeling similar to unweighted turns. Even at speed, you can make very tight carves by putting some pressure on the back foot. When I do this, I’m doing 180s in the swell from heel to toe to heel to toe etc. It can run out of juice and stall if you end up on the back of the wave in front of you (I guess that makes sense, gotta work on that). It glides and pumps well at speed. At low speed, the stalling behavior is very manageable, it’s more like initiating an involuntary pump when it stalls, meaning you can keep going with some bouncing rather than crashing immediately. Finally, with a 92cm mast, I still breach it fairly easily and I’m working on staying low in carves which is helping.

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Re: Ultimate foil for surf skate like quick carves?

Postby mirza23454 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:08 pm

Some data for the above: I weigh 230 pounds, I ride a Slingshot Dwarfcraft micro about 107 cm long, my “lightwind” low end is 12 kts with a Peak4 5 m, my local spot swell is 2-5 ft, this is my first season foiling, and second season kiting, very limited experience


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