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looking for bar to foil with

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watercamper
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby watercamper » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:00 pm

br44 wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:32 pm
DIY is the only reasonable option if you ask me. Most bars out there are either junk, or overpriced. No thanks

Around $40 buys a 25x21x1000 mm carbon tube that you can make 2 bars out of (say 56 and 44 cm). The biggest issue is the bar hole. My solution is an external “hole”: 3 mm Dyneema, within 6x4mm polyurethane tubing, and held in place by a Brummel lock splice (the only knot, of all that I tried, that does not slip). As shown in the pics, it requires 3 holes that are easy to make. I’ve been using this solution for 1 year and it works well, no complaints.

Everything else is easy to make and requires just some Dyneema rope (3 mm plus 5 or 6 mm) and the lines. Add the QR from Infexion and the safety ring from Kite Attitude.

DE141C76-0D30-42B0-9B0A-53B11A2B4BCC.jpeg
EAFA9899-416F-4480-B6CA-759429579D7C.jpeg
50141730-26F3-4C00-A407-9524D05667F7.jpeg
48F0787C-7DF5-491E-8CF1-326B3DB36BB4.jpeg
For those of us just starting down the path of DIY bars, would u by chance have more of a writeup/fotos on your bar? I haven't found how to use the safety ring as yet. And what did you do for the bar ends, winding the lines, etc? Thanks!
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grigorib
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby grigorib » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:02 pm

I love my foiling bars
Attachments
D06E4458-084D-450C-B754-F243D0B57572.jpeg
DADF943D-EF84-47C8-9652-5082C4640734.jpeg
7E192B0D-9B9B-4C12-BFA2-E17BCA8184DE.jpeg
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nixmatters
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby nixmatters » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:23 pm

Have you checked Infexion Max bar?
https://www.infexion.eu/product-category/max_bar/

watercamper
Medium Poster
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:57 am
Kiting since: 2017
Weight: 150
Local Beach: Gorge, lower Columbia river, Oregon coast, La Ventana
Style: Foil mostly, Surf, TT seldom
Gear: SS, LF, OR, Mystic, Ion, Lift, O'Neill, Buell, Pro-Tec, Liros, Cab
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby watercamper » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:37 am

grigorib wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:02 pm
I love my foiling bars
Re: the 2nd n 3rd foto: R those KISS bars? If not, then ??

grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby grigorib » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:07 am

watercamper wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:37 am
grigorib wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:02 pm
I love my foiling bars
Re: the 2nd n 3rd foto: R those KISS bars? If not, then ??
Mostly KISS - with Best splitter, Naish flag out line and Ozone race lines

OzBungy
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby OzBungy » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:20 am

I'm not sure why people feel they need ultra-lightweight bars for foiling. I have a very light carbon bar and it works ok, but it doesn't have the padded ends and bungie line holders that you get on normal bars. I don't feel the featherweight bar adds to the experience of kiting. The weight of any bar is trivial and the kite lines support most of it.

I have settled on Cabrinha bars from 2017 onwards. All the parts are interchangeable with later years. It's easy to splice up new bits and pieces for them.

More importantly I have modified the trimmers so I have 50cm of trimmer instead of the normal 15-20cm that most bars have. What that means is I can rig all my kites fully oversheeted, for max grunt when water starting or whatever, and just pull in more and more trimmer to handle the conditions.

When riding upwind I pull on a heap of trim to handle the apparent wind, and riding downwind I let the trimmer right out so the kite sits deep in the window.

If the wind picks up I can pull in more and more trimmer and keep riding. I can often be out with a 12m kite when others are foiling with 4m kites. Sure the canopy flutters like a mad thing but it all works ok. Absolutely it's better to have the optimum size kite for the conditions, but having almost infinite range is a huge plus.

My favourite bar is a 60cm bar. Foiling in strong winds with a tiny kite is a joy with that thing. It's easy to do carving turns and leave the kite behind, but just tweaking the end of the bar causes the kite to flick onto the new direction. You have to be a little careful about hand positioning when doing tacks, its easy to overcontrol if you're not careful.

As my other bars get older I refurbish them, replace the centre lines, lengthen the leaders and safety line and put on an excessively long trimmer line.
Last edited by OzBungy on Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

rnelias
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby rnelias » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:40 am

OzBungy wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:20 am
I'm not sure why people feel they need ultra-lightweight bars for foiling. I have a very light carbon bar and it works ok, but it doesn't have the padded ends and bungie line holders that you get on normal bars. I don't feel the featherweight bar adds to the experience of kiting. The weight of any bar is trivial and the kite lines support most of it.

I have settled on Cabrinha bars from 2017 onwards. All the parts are interchangeable with later years. It's easy to splice up new bits and pieces for them.

More importantly I have modified the trimmers so I have 50cm of trimmer instead of the normal 15-20cm that most bars have. What that means is I can rig all my kites fully oversheeted, for max grunt when water starting or whatever, and just pull in more and more trimmer to handle the conditions.

When riding upwind I pull on a heap of trim to handle the apparent wind, and riding downwind I let the trimmer right out so the kite sits deep in the window.

If the wind picks up I can pull in more and more trimmer and keep riding. I can often be out with a 12m kite when others are foiling with 4m kites. Sure the canopy flutters like a mad thing but it all works ok. Absolutely it's better to have the optimum size kite for the conditions, but having almost infinite range is a huge plus.

My favourite bar is a 60cm bar. Foiling in strong winds with a tiny kite is a joy with that thing. It's easy to do carving turns and leave the kite behind, but just tweaking the end of the bar causes the kite to flick onto the new direction. You have to be a little careful about hand positioning when doing tacks, its easy to overcontrol if you're not careful.
Cabrinha now has AV8 bar. Comes with 2 line extensions, allowing for 16, 19 and 22m lines and 4:1 depower system. It's made for the AV8 kite but is also ready to be used with any foil kite. You can even convert the bar to modular and use it with rope slider.

I also don't understand the need for a lightweight bar besides for traveling or if you're racing.

https://www.cabrinha.com/collections/av8

OzBungy
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby OzBungy » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:54 am

I've seen the AV8 bar. It doesn't give you more depower travel. It just gives you less pressure on the depower line. All that extra line is taken up by the 4:1 pulley system.

Most 4:1 race systems don't actually give you all that much more trim to pull, just less pressure on the line.

That makes sense for racing when you want to do micro trim adjustments while riding cranked over at full speed.

I wanted more depower. I still have the 2:1 system but a heap more travel. I don't find pressure on the 2:1 system a problem. I am tall with long arms and I can reach the trim line fairly easily. I am more of a free rider so I often do trim adjustments around a transition when I'm upright.

I've also discarded the little handles and velcro and magnets that companies put on trim lines. A single length of rope with a couple of knots in the end works fine. When there's a lot of trim pulled I drape the loose end over the bar. I can reach it and adjust it without moving from my riding position. If it's not draped then it just hangs down. If I was racing I could simply have a longer end on the trim line so I could always have it close to hand.

PS It's a fantastic feeling to have an unfeasibly large kite, foil cranked over, locked in and charging upwind. The race kiters are like that all the time. My pretend race gear is a close enough approximation without going to the cost of the specialist gear. :D

PPS My home modified Carbinha bars are nicer than the AV8 add-ons. I replace all the rope and bungie components and upgrade and colour code them. The first bar was made from Cabrinha and Ozone spare parts, now I just upgrade the newer Cabrinha bars.

watercamper
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Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:57 am
Kiting since: 2017
Weight: 150
Local Beach: Gorge, lower Columbia river, Oregon coast, La Ventana
Style: Foil mostly, Surf, TT seldom
Gear: SS, LF, OR, Mystic, Ion, Lift, O'Neill, Buell, Pro-Tec, Liros, Cab
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby watercamper » Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:35 am

OzBungy wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:54 am
I've seen the AV8 bar. It doesn't give you more depower travel. It just gives you less pressure on the depower line. All that extra line is taken up by the 4:1 pulley system.

Most 4:1 race systems don't actually give you all that much more trim to pull, just less pressure on the line.

That makes sense for racing when you want to do micro trim adjustments while riding cranked over at full speed.

I wanted more depower. I still have the 2:1 system but a heap more travel. I don't find pressure on the 2:1 system a problem. I am tall with long arms and I can reach the trim line fairly easily. I am more of a free rider so I often do trim adjustments around a transition when I'm upright.

I've also discarded the little handles and velcro and magnets that companies put on trim lines. A single length of rope with a couple of knots in the end works fine. When there's a lot of trim pulled I drape the loose end over the bar. I can reach it and adjust it without moving from my riding position. If it's not draped then it just hangs down. If I was racing I could simply have a longer end on the trim line so I could always have it close to hand.

PS It's a fantastic feeling to have an unfeasibly large kite, foil cranked over, locked in and charging upwind. The race kiters are like that all the time. My pretend race gear is a close enough approximation without going to the cost of the specialist gear. :D

PPS My home modified Carbinha bars are nicer than the AV8 add-ons. I replace all the rope and bungie components and upgrade and colour code them. The first bar was made from Cabrinha and Ozone spare parts, now I just upgrade the newer Cabrinha bars.
Fotos maybe? Just so I understand what you are doing to your Cabrinha bar. I just checked my LFMC bar. 38 cm of trim. I just wonder what to do for my wife and her short arms?

OzBungy
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Re: looking for bar to foil with

Postby OzBungy » Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:02 pm

watercamper wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:35 am
... I just checked my LFMC bar. 38 cm of trim. I just wonder what to do for my wife and her short arms?
I suspect you are measuring the amount of line pulled through the trimmer. The travel of the trimmer is only half that.

You could do lots of things for your wife's short arms.

- A seat harness lowers the connection point and brings the bar closer.

- You could shorten the depower throw then make the trimmer longer to compensate. That would be easier on some bars than others and your engineering and problem solving ability.

- She could learn to pull the centre line down to bringthe bar within reach if she lets go of it.

- She could take up wing foiling.
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