Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
slowboat
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:55 pm
Style: wave foiling
Gear: This and that
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 95 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby slowboat » Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:44 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:54 am
slowboat wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:16 am
Matty V wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:05 pm



So just forget about drag, range, roll stability and Yaw

Chord thickness is probably the biggest performance differentiator any way and Gunnar and SAB gets that, not sure you do..

Two identical area foils one with a thicker chord section which one has more lift?

Now two wings one smaller area by 200cm with a 30%thicker chord
Which one creates more lift?

The constant marketing of surface area as the only thing that matters is what’s at fault. SAB are actually honest enough to buck that trend yet they are the ones getting criticised.
Look up the equation for lift and you might learn something.
Here is its:

Image

Note the explanation of Cl.

--
Gunnar
Good. Now everyone can see that CL has only 3 variables. And of the 3 variables, one of them is surface area. Are you still saying surface area "means nothing'?

User avatar
Frankieboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1058
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:05 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby Frankieboy » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:58 pm

according to SAB data sheet, the 945 is thinner then the 950

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 3/5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Flysurfer 2cool 6m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20” Guardian bar, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 461 times
Been thanked: 690 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby grigorib » Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:19 pm

🤣

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1998
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: Indiana, Sailmon
Brand Affiliation: Indiana, Sailmon
Location: Fuerteventura
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:14 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:44 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:54 am
slowboat wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:16 am

Look up the equation for lift and you might learn something.
Here is its:

Image

Note the explanation of Cl.

--
Gunnar
Good. Now everyone can see that CL has only 3 variables. And of the 3 variables, one of them is surface area. Are you still saying surface area "means nothing'?
for comparing different front wings, Yes it pretty much means nothing.

addictedtofoil
Medium Poster
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:54 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: queenscliff
Gear: Ozone foil kites
SABFoil/Moses hydrofoils
Wings: F-one Stike, Ensis
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:21 pm

Ok, we all now agree that surface area plays an important part in the lift equation and when thinking about purchasing a foil, this is a KEY parameter.

I am looking for MORE lift in low-medium wind without downturned wingtips as a 95-100kg rider, not less lift. I'd prefer to stay with Moses for winging but a whole season has gone by and they still haven't addressed the gap in their range.

Gunnar, perhaps you could speak to Moses about addressing the gap in winging foil range? You'd have more influence than most.

1250 = 2400cm2
1100 = 2100cm2
--------------------
WIDTH? cm2 maybe between 1500-1700cm2 - THIS IS THE GAP (someone said the axis 1050 is good for reference), without downturned wingtips
--------------------
950 = 1350cm2
945 = 1300cm2
799 = 1100cm2

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1998
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: Indiana, Sailmon
Brand Affiliation: Indiana, Sailmon
Location: Fuerteventura
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:57 pm

addictedtofoil wrote:
Gunnar, perhaps you could speak to Moses about addressing the gap in winging foil range? You'd have more influence than most.

7
They are making a balz pro 899. But at the moment there is no gap. It is only a gap in listed surface area , but not in practice. The 945 sits exactly where you say there is a gap when it comes to range, so will the 899.

--
Gunnar
These users thanked the author gmb13 for the post:
Frankieboy (Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:47 pm)
Rating: 3.03%

addictedtofoil
Medium Poster
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:54 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: queenscliff
Gear: Ozone foil kites
SABFoil/Moses hydrofoils
Wings: F-one Stike, Ensis
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:41 am

Ok I will wait for the 899 to come out and see what the surface area is on that.

There is a 750cm2 surface area gap between the 950 and 1100
There is a 800cm2 surface area gap between the 945 and 1100

I doubt a 95-100kg guy using a 6m wing can wing easily with the 945 or 950 in wind < 18 knots

In my opinion there is a gap in their range either 750cm2 or 800cm2 pick either one, but we can agree to disagree on this.

Thanks for the information about the 899

addictedtofoil
Medium Poster
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:54 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: queenscliff
Gear: Ozone foil kites
SABFoil/Moses hydrofoils
Wings: F-one Stike, Ensis
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:47 am

Who wants to place bets that the 899 will be 1300cm2 or 1350 cm2 and the GAP will remain?

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1998
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: Indiana, Sailmon
Brand Affiliation: Indiana, Sailmon
Location: Fuerteventura
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:20 am

addictedtofoil wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:41 am


I doubt a 95-100kg guy using a 6m wing can wing easily with the 945 or 950 in wind < 18 knots
While you doubt it, I have tested it and have had guys over 100kg easily get flying with the 945 in less than 18 knots and they did not even need a 6m. Actually those guys got flying in less than 12 knots with an Ensis 6m.

The the two videos with me in the green top in the follwing thread where all on the W945. I weigh 87kg at the moment. Note the lack of anyone else on the water. Anyone who knows Flag Beach will know how light the wind is when no kiters are out at all. viewtopic.php?f=201&t=2410661

--
Gunnar

Cefirmeza
Medium Poster
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:30 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Weight: 65kg
Local Beach: Ceará - Brazil
Favorite Beaches: Ceará, Brazil
Style: Kitefoil Wingfoil
Gear: Slingshot sst 4m, Airush Ultra 5m, brm cloud 5.5m, Peak4 4m/6m, Duotone Slick 3.5/4.5m
Sabfoil W1000,W800, Lift classic 150
Armstrong SKT3’11 25L
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby Cefirmeza » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:05 pm

addictedtofoil wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:47 am
Who wants to place bets that the 899 will be 1300cm2 or 1350 cm2 and the GAP will remain?
Almost. 899 = 1440 cm2


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], jhonson and 96 guests