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Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

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slowboat
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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby slowboat » Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:44 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:54 am
slowboat wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:16 am
Matty V wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:05 pm



So just forget about drag, range, roll stability and Yaw

Chord thickness is probably the biggest performance differentiator any way and Gunnar and SAB gets that, not sure you do..

Two identical area foils one with a thicker chord section which one has more lift?

Now two wings one smaller area by 200cm with a 30%thicker chord
Which one creates more lift?

The constant marketing of surface area as the only thing that matters is what’s at fault. SAB are actually honest enough to buck that trend yet they are the ones getting criticised.
Look up the equation for lift and you might learn something.
Here is its:

Image

Note the explanation of Cl.

--
Gunnar
Good. Now everyone can see that CL has only 3 variables. And of the 3 variables, one of them is surface area. Are you still saying surface area "means nothing'?

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby Frankieboy » Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:58 pm

according to SAB data sheet, the 945 is thinner then the 950

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby grigorib » Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:19 pm

🤣

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:14 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:44 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:54 am
slowboat wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:16 am

Look up the equation for lift and you might learn something.
Here is its:

Image

Note the explanation of Cl.

--
Gunnar
Good. Now everyone can see that CL has only 3 variables. And of the 3 variables, one of them is surface area. Are you still saying surface area "means nothing'?
for comparing different front wings, Yes it pretty much means nothing.

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:21 pm

Ok, we all now agree that surface area plays an important part in the lift equation and when thinking about purchasing a foil, this is a KEY parameter.

I am looking for MORE lift in low-medium wind without downturned wingtips as a 95-100kg rider, not less lift. I'd prefer to stay with Moses for winging but a whole season has gone by and they still haven't addressed the gap in their range.

Gunnar, perhaps you could speak to Moses about addressing the gap in winging foil range? You'd have more influence than most.

1250 = 2400cm2
1100 = 2100cm2
--------------------
WIDTH? cm2 maybe between 1500-1700cm2 - THIS IS THE GAP (someone said the axis 1050 is good for reference), without downturned wingtips
--------------------
950 = 1350cm2
945 = 1300cm2
799 = 1100cm2

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:57 pm

addictedtofoil wrote:
Gunnar, perhaps you could speak to Moses about addressing the gap in winging foil range? You'd have more influence than most.

7
They are making a balz pro 899. But at the moment there is no gap. It is only a gap in listed surface area , but not in practice. The 945 sits exactly where you say there is a gap when it comes to range, so will the 899.

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:41 am

Ok I will wait for the 899 to come out and see what the surface area is on that.

There is a 750cm2 surface area gap between the 950 and 1100
There is a 800cm2 surface area gap between the 945 and 1100

I doubt a 95-100kg guy using a 6m wing can wing easily with the 945 or 950 in wind < 18 knots

In my opinion there is a gap in their range either 750cm2 or 800cm2 pick either one, but we can agree to disagree on this.

Thanks for the information about the 899

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:47 am

Who wants to place bets that the 899 will be 1300cm2 or 1350 cm2 and the GAP will remain?

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:20 am

addictedtofoil wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:41 am


I doubt a 95-100kg guy using a 6m wing can wing easily with the 945 or 950 in wind < 18 knots
While you doubt it, I have tested it and have had guys over 100kg easily get flying with the 945 in less than 18 knots and they did not even need a 6m. Actually those guys got flying in less than 12 knots with an Ensis 6m.

The the two videos with me in the green top in the follwing thread where all on the W945. I weigh 87kg at the moment. Note the lack of anyone else on the water. Anyone who knows Flag Beach will know how light the wind is when no kiters are out at all. viewtopic.php?f=201&t=2410661

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby Cefirmeza » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:05 pm

addictedtofoil wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:47 am
Who wants to place bets that the 899 will be 1300cm2 or 1350 cm2 and the GAP will remain?
Almost. 899 = 1440 cm2


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