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Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

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addictedtofoil
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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:43 pm

Ok so by the sounds of it they are increasing the 899 by 340cm2, so maybe I have to wait for the 999 in 2022/2023?

799 = 1100cm2
899 = 1440cm2 - GAP slightly closed, just like grigorb said 30% increases
999 = 1780cm2 - GAP will be closed in 2022/2023? What about 2021?

Thanks for your feedback Gunnar, but 87kg is not 95-100kg. You could always make a video of you wearing a scuba weight belt of 10kg to bring yourself up to my weight and then try in light winds with no wave assistance, only then we are comparing apples with apples.

Without forgetting the fact that you are an advanced winger and probably get more water time than most, what about the average weekend warrior just wanting some fun in light shifty winds?

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:47 am

addictedtofoil wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:43 pm
Ok so by the sounds of it they are increasing the 899 by 340cm2, so maybe I have to wait for the 999 in 2022/2023?

799 = 1100cm2
899 = 1440cm2 - GAP slightly closed, just like grigorb said 30% increases
999 = 1780cm2 - GAP will be closed in 2022/2023? What about 2021?

Thanks for your feedback Gunnar, but 87kg is not 95-100kg. You could always make a video of you wearing a scuba weight belt of 10kg to bring yourself up to my weight and then try in light winds with no wave assistance, only then we are comparing apples with apples.

Without forgetting the fact that you are an advanced winger and probably get more water time than most, what about the average weekend warrior just wanting some fun in light shifty winds?
The guys I had testing it where over 100kg and intermedate wingers. Do you really think I don't let others test the gear to find out how it works for them?

--
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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:00 am

I guess once bitten, twice shy - buying the 950 thinking it was 1600cm2 and realizing how much wind it needed :(

I don't really won't to argue with you as I'm sure if you were at my local beach we'd be mates.

I'll wait until the 899 comes out, but there's no local dealers to demo, but I'd be happy to trade my 950 for a 945 or 899, but that is not possible.

It's a shame that Sabfoil have been so slow to develop wings for winging for heavier riders. For kiting in my opinion they are the best brand for recreational kite foiling, but winging is a different story and many people who are Sabfoil wingers share the same sentiment

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby gmb13 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:28 am

addictedtofoil wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:00 am
I guess once bitten, twice shy - buying the 950 thinking it was 1600cm2 and realizing how much wind it needed :(

I don't really won't to argue with you as I'm sure if you were at my local beach we'd be mates.

I'll wait until the 899 comes out, but there's no local dealers to demo, but I'd be happy to trade my 950 for a 945 or 899, but that is not possible.

It's a shame that Sabfoil have been so slow to develop wings for winging for heavier riders. For kiting in my opinion they are the best brand for recreational kite foiling, but winging is a different story and many people who are Sabfoil wingers share the same sentiment
Just to be clear what you actually want. Do you want a 1700cm2 wing based on the "1270, 1100, 950" design or on the 945 or 799 designs? There will be a huge difference in lowend and speeds.

--
Gunnar

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:45 am

After using the 1100 and 950 with downturned wingtips, not really a fan to be honest, it's ok but nothing to write home about. The 950 is fun, but doesn't have the glide and stalls easily.

My favorite wing for kiting is the 800, I can drift my chrono kites and carve harbour chop or go as fast as I want.
This is followed closely by the 695, but I use this only for boosting higher as can hold more pressure before jumping.
The 799 is great for carving harbour chop at slow speeds and hard carving turns, but this doesn't like going fast in choppy conditions and becomes a handful quite quickly. I usually use the 400 for kiting but light winds use the 483.

For winging I have only tried the 1100, 950 and 799. I use a 5'4 111L board for light-medium wind and a 5'4 56L Kt Drifter surf for winds over > 18 knots. I have a ensis v2 6m and strike 5m.

I think I'd like something close to the 945 design or the 899 if it is the same shape as the 799, but not sure what that would be like at speed.

Something that is usable < 18 knots, easy to get on foil, more agile turning than the 1100, not too much pressure at speed and good for carving harbour chop, and maybe small waves.

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:27 pm

Why not getting Lift 250HA and adapter from Stringy to match Moses mast?

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby happywizz » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:51 pm

Two months ago I learned Winging on the 950 but I didnt like it on the waves because quite a lot of ventilation. Its fast on flat water and good for pumping. I sold the 950 and bought the 945, which is in my opinion a superior foil. No ventilation, agile and less of a on/off characteristic compared to the 950. To my surprise it lifts quite a bit earlier than the 950 despite the surface area is less (so in this case I can agree with Gunnar.) After using the 945 in 8ft+ waves, I liked to have more speed so I bought the 940 which is now my favorite together 370 stab. I think the 940 has about the same takeoff speed as the 950.
Till to about 15 knts I use the 945 with the 483 stab otherwise the 940 with the 370.

Im about 75 kg and currently using a 85l board (Naish), this week I hope to get my Groove 65l G-Wave. As Wings I use an Ensis 5.2/4.5 F1 3.5

As the 940 is very easy to handle for Winging I want to try and buy the 800 to push the limits. If the 800 works for winging I will sell the 945 and keep the 940 for low wind.

As a side note; I hate up or down wingtips. If they are down they get damaged too easily, if they are up they damage you (or worse my precious wing.)

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:32 pm

Thanks for the information, but it is not comparing apples with apples. Your weight is exactly the target market for the 945!

Your weight is 25kg less than me, or 1/3 your bodyweight. I encourage you to go to a gym and lift up two 12.5kg dumbbells and imagine yourself using the 945 in light to medium wind wing foiling.

I could 100% guarantee that your opinion would change dramatically. You too could wear a scuba weight belt with 25kg and then try the 945 in light-medium wind < 18 knots, but please don't as it wont be safe for you to do so.

I am sure if you are a small-medium person, to me that is less than 75-80kg the 945 is an excellent foil. To a large person > 95kg it is not for the same wind range.

The 800 is a wing piercer, just like the 400 stabilizer, prepare to be going to the sailmaker a lot to repair your wings, but if you are a sponsored rider then this doesn't matter.
Last edited by addictedtofoil on Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

addictedtofoil
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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby addictedtofoil » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:39 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:27 pm
Why not getting Lift 250HA and adapter from Stringy to match Moses mast?
It's a one piece foil, which in my opinion is a bad design, hard to travel with and requires an adapter.

Other brands all have medium-high aspect wings in the 1500-1700cm range for winging for large people, I just can't understand why Sabfoil don't.

There are 6+ billion people in the world, surely I am not the only person who has this opinion?

If I am the only person who thinks this then I can understand that I am not the target market for Sabfoil and that is why they don't make medium-high aspect wings in this size.

It is an expensive exercise to buy a new mast/wing/stabiliser from another brand just for that wind range, but it is a wind range very common in Sydney

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Re: Moses release new 607 and 740 wing, where's the wings for prone and winging?

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:41 pm

addictedtofoil wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:39 pm
grigorib wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:27 pm
Why not getting Lift 250HA and adapter from Stringy to match Moses mast?
It's a one piece foil, which in my opinion is a bad design, hard to travel with and requires an adapter.

Other brands all have medium-high aspect wings in the 1500-1700cm range for winging for large people, I just can't understand why Sabfoil don't.

There are 6+ billion people in the world, surely I am not the only person who has this opinion?

If I am the only person who thinks this then I can understand that I am not the target market for Sabfoil and that is why they don't make medium-high aspect wings in this size.

It is an expensive exercise to buy a new mast/wing/stabiliser from another brand just for that wind range, but it is a wind range very common in Sydney
Lift 250HA is two piece and you can get an adapter for Moses mast - so those shouldn’t be problems.
I’ve been asking Moses for years, along with others to address burning requests and they didn’t. That’s why I ride mostly RDB wings now and that’s why I ordered 1700 sq.cm RDB wing for winging too. I don’t have time to wait years for wings I need.


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