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Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

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Archer77
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Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby Archer77 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:07 pm

Hey there!

This summer I have tried starting HF with my old Ozone Catalyst V1 (2016) 12m and 9m around 12 to 15knots, and I discovered are really heavy kites, probably because as beginners kite have lots of reinforcements ...
I'm 80Kg and my HF is a Lift 200 Classic (1290cm2) with an 80cm mast and a medium/small floating board

in fact, I have had almost zero results, the kites were always falling in the water, and I lost more time relaunching them than trying to water start ...

Now I'm thinking to buy an Alpha V2, but I can't decide among:

- 14m that will also be useful with the TT at 14/15 knots, but maybe too slow and too powerful to learn?
- 12m is probably not useful with TT(cause I already have a 12m) but seams centered in the wind range I'm aiming
- 10m I understand that this measure will be the "way to go" past the learning process so why not take directly this... (and maybe I will use it also for some wave surfing...)

The wind range where I will use it will be mostly from 9 to 16 knots, then I consider to go with TT...

thank you all!

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Re: HELP - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby matth » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:22 pm

I would definitely go with the 10m.
I also use a lift 200 with a 9m Boxer.
Great combo, I can get going at 10/11mph.
I had a 12m Ultra and it had more low end but was way to much kite once going, so i sold it.
My board is a sinker and it took a few sessions to master getting up in low wind, but once you are up its so much better with a smaller kite.

I also do not believe the bigger kites are any easier to relaunch in light wind.
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby tmcfarla » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:49 pm

14m is way too big for foiling. 12m would be a specialty kite for very light wind. 10m would be good, but I would think that 8m or 9m would be better at your size with that wing, unless you only want to foil only on very light wind days. At 70kg with a Lift 170 classic, my 6m was LEI was by far my most used kite (15-30 knots), my 8m saw a lot of use too (12-20 knots), and I almost never used my 10m single strut (10-15 knots). As soon as I could make the 8 work, I used that instead of the 10 since it flies so much better, so functional range of the 10m was only 10-12 knots. I've since moved to foil kites, but I would still recommend LEI for starting out.

If you plan on foiling only on light wind days, this changes things a bit. 8m might cover the most foiling days total, but if you want to switch to TT at 15 knots, then a specialty big kite like a 12m might make sense even though it will top out much sooner.
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:27 pm

Go with the 10 m2 :thumb:

Then you can ride in 8 knots when you have learned foiling, and much better and more fun overall for foil (or any board) .

8) Peter
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby Dingus » Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:54 pm

Had my first go on a foil, cab double agent with 85 cm mast. Was about 12knts of wind and pumped up a 10m.

Tried to stand up on foil twice and failed both times. So just lay on the board and went up and down a few times, after 45 mins I could comfortably belly ride and gybe without touch downs.

The wind picked up to 15 to 18knts. Next I tried to stand on the thing but spent most of the next hour in the water. I was able to foil in my preferred stance, not the other way.

I found I needed a lot of power in the kite. I guess this is because I was flying the kite very gently to reduce unexpected foil happenings. And the power makes it easy to stand on the board and taxi.

So for my 2nd attempt, will be looking for stable winds and pick a kite size that would allow me to do small jumps on a regular board.
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby Dingus » Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:37 pm

15 to 18knts is difficult to quantify so conditions where-

Experienced foilers where using 6 to 8m leis.

And lighter twin tippers with 12m kites were doing some medium sized(<7m) jumps.
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby grigorib » Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:15 am

Put your 9m on long lines (27+ meters) and you should be fine. Don’t even look at monsters over 10m size - those are slow and your 200 Lift for your 80 kilos is a huge wing to ride anyrhing over 9m in size.

Here’s my previous writeup

viewtopic.php?p=1031386#p1031386

Few things to consider before thinking of becoming a foiler:
- you will feel like you’re just learning boardstarts again. 3-4 sessions realistically to ride back and forth with butt down in water to turn board around. With further practice you’ll be better and better
- falls are harder from height and at speeds. Be ready to wipe out hard
- foil is more expensive gear to get but it pays off in pleasure and number of days on water
- foiling sensation is something in between Aladdin’s magic carpet and McFly’s hoverboard. With one exception of neither cartoon nor the movie shown their epic faceplants while learning to ride.
- foils replaced completely all the boards in races (with exception of TT:R if that counts as race to start with)
- foils will replace majority of lightwind boards
- foils will dominate kite scene with exception of hardcore ramp/wake style and hardcore wave riding
- foils are sharp and aluminum setups are heavy. They're dangerous. Wear protective gear. Do not kick in water under the board. Fall as far as you can from the board - do not attempt to stay on ("saving") the board.
- you'll be surprised with ease and amount of upwind, even while learning and barely riding
- when down from foil - they come downwind fast, no bodydragging really needed. Just wait for it.
- you will likely ditch all the kites larger than 12m unless you're going to race. Lightwind foils can be ridden 1-2 sizes down. Imagine riding 5m kite at 16 knots wind at 200 lbs rider weight. <- That exactly.
- you gotta be good with a kite before starting to learn foiling. You'll need to focus on the board, not paying attention to the kite

Now
Few things to consider when learning to foil:
- lessons are good (duh, like for anything else) if you can afford them, they boost progression
- if not getting lessons - learn from videos, observation, friends, from people you trust. You need to learn regardless way you get information
- have an experienced foiler which you trust to setup straps/mast position for himself, then move mast back (or straps forward) by 1"-2" for learning phase
- again - foils are sharp and aluminum setups are heavy. They're dangerous. Wear protective gear. Do not kick in water under the board. Fall as far as you can from the board - do not attempt to stay on ("saving") the board
- I suggest you learn with longer lines - they give you more time at initial dive and more time to focus on the boardstarts
- two masts is a good idea - easier to learn on ~70cm length and keep it for shallows. You'd like a longer mast for waves and deep water once you're good at foiling
- try to keep your body in same plane as the mast (perpendicular to the board) - no tilting the board as TT/directional. Stay aligned with the mast.
- lots of front foot pressure when boardstarting. Imagine balance board with feet equally off the center balance (compared to TT where back foot is closer to the center and has more pressure)
- learn to ride board flat. You'll edge later when you're progressing
- if you're porposing a lot you might be going too slow or your back foot might be too much back
- when moving feet/mast do it by 10-20mm steps. The balance is really fine, large shifts will become nasty surprises
- learn with two straps (or two hooks). Hooks will save your ankles and bones from twisting/breaking just as having two straps. One strap looks cool but can cause locked foot upon fall and broken ankle. When ready for one strap - use one hook only
- when single front hook breaks - take it as a sign and learn strapless. Few sessions and you'll be all comfortable again
- set straps really loose so you can eject from board easily
- harness with a sliding spreader bar is really awesome when you're ready to ride toeside. Consider getting one
- invest into foil covers - to protect everything around foil and foil itself
- a nice learning board will have extra volume and good nose rocker. Later you might want to go smaller unless you race
- learn to loop/downloop the kite if you don't do it yet. It'll help you to foil with yet smaller kite
- expect to learn on regular size, then getting excited and riding small, then going bigger again once you can harness the power wile on the foil.

As for lessons...I was taught to ride a bike for free. I learnt swimming for free. Learnt driving for free. Didn't need to pay for my degree. Never had to hire/pay anyone for sex lessons either. On the other hand if every day of riding trip costs you $700 it makes great sense to pay $150/hour to save money overall and get riding faster.

Fly the foil
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Archer77 (Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:58 pm)
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby vakiter » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:29 am

I have a older Naish strutless 10m trip for sale cheap if your interested.

10m flite is my most used light wind kite but I use 12 if I have to.
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Archer77 (Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:58 pm)
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Archer77
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby Archer77 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:31 pm

matth wrote: I would definitely go with the 10m.
tmcfarla wrote: 14m is way too big for foiling...
Peter_Frank wrote: Go with the 10 m2 :thumb:
Dingus wrote: Had my first go on a foil, cab double agent with 85 cm mast. Was about 12knts of wind and pumped up a 10m.
grigorib wrote: Put your 9m on long lines (27+ meters) and you should be fine. Don’t even look at monsters over 10m size - those are slow and your 200 Lift for your 80 kilos is a huge wing to ride anyrhing over 9m in size.
vakiter wrote: I have a older Naish strutless 10m trip for sale cheap if your interested.
10m flite is my most used light wind kite but I use 12 if I have to.
Thank You all, now I have far more clear view, much appreciated suggestions! :heartface:
Thank You again
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Peter_Frank (Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:22 pm)
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Re: Help - Best LEI kite size to start HF?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:29 pm

Spot on, the 10 m2 is the perfect size for learning and as an overall lightwind kite :thumb:

When you have learned, you might, as many, go to even lighter wind kites.

With the 10 you should be able to ride down to 8 knots on long lines.

But for the range 5-8 knots you need a special kite.
This kite is NOT usable for learning though - either a really difficult foilkite, or a tubekite which is hard to handle in this wind, even if light.

8) Peter
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