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Downloop vs up-loop in low wind jibes

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knyfe
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Downloop vs up-loop in low wind jibes

Postby knyfe » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:14 pm

I realized that for my 5m cloud it is better to uploop (against riding direction) when I am at the bottom of its wind range while for my 8 it’s better to downloop for a jibe at its low end wind range and still survive a jibe. I don’t understand why they react different. Anyone with an explainer?

Foil is a 633… thanks G

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Re: Downloop vs “up”-loop in low wind jibes

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:28 pm

I haven't ridden peaks but the probable explanation is in the power spike and the difference in how they generate power. The 8m (by all accounts) generates static grunt more than grunt through the turn where as the 5m generates grunt as it flies through the window more than static pull.

Interested in knowing how you worked out that the uploop is better. With my kites I normally find a downloop is better regardless of kite type at the low end as the kite often can go slack during the turn and lose steering. By downlooping you get the steering out of the way before you start turning the board. My guess is that the 5m turns so well that you don't lose the steering whilst turning the board and so you gain stability through the lift of the kite as it goes overhead. All guesswork though.

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Re: Downloop vs “up”-loop in low wind jibes

Postby flaps1111 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:51 pm

I think he is talking about BRM clouds not Peaks.

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Re: Downloop vs “up”-loop in low wind jibes

Postby edt » Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:51 pm

It's a mystery. Downloops are almost always better for transitions than kiteloops because as the kite comes out of the loop it's headed the opposite way in a downloop. Kiteloops by contrast have the kite going in the same direction so they are generally not as good for transitions. Pretty weird. Tho the kiteloop to the same way you need it to loop 1 and a half times while the down loop you only loop it one half time. Maybe the smaller kite is looping too fast so that extra loop gives you more time. Try slowing the loop on your smaller kite?

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Re: Downloop vs up-loop in low wind jibes

Postby ieism » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:32 pm

It could be as simple as not a lot of wind lower in the window when the conditions get more marginal.

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Re: Downloop vs up-loop in low wind jibes

Postby borist » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:59 pm

I think the choice is personal. Some do better with up-loop then down-loop in marginal condition, the others just the opposite. The key is maintaining the speed and line tension. Which ever technique works better for you to accomplish this is the "right one". For me down-loop works better, but I have to adjust the timing when wind drops. I start the loop a bit later and make it more drawn out and a bit wider jibe carve. The kite ends up a little behind and accelerates as it catches up. Another rider does the up-loop with a tight jibe. Both seem to work well.

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Re: Downloop vs up-loop in low wind jibes

Postby AndersP » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:25 pm

The downloop genererates more speed and power when travelling fast through the window (unless you do a minidownloop up in the sky).

Upstroke travels a shorter distance at lower speed and therefore generates less power.

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Re: Downloop vs up-loop in low wind jibes

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:04 pm

Maybe it is because your 5 is lighter, and also out in more wind, so it works well up-looping as it still accelerates up.

Whereas the 8 is heavier and in less wind at its low end, so when flown up it might lose speed and power, thus not as efficient.

Could be that, OR, just you who has a preference.

As there are so many parameters which interfere.

I prefer the up-loop, in particular if marginal wind with big kites.

But I also jibe first and switch feet going out of the jibe.
Where others switch feet first.

When you downloop you will have the kite at high speed very low going out of the jibe, which is horrible for switching feet, and you also lose upwind ground a lot more than with up-loops.

But if you switch feet first, you would probably prefer the downloop.

I like, having light kites, that they generate power when flown up, and coming out on the new tack kite is up and flying down, so here you can dose how much power you want yourself, but more importantly you got a kite sitting higher which makes foot switching a hell of a lot easier and safer, and after this you still have a kite that flies down so accelerate you so you can keep foiling without losing upwind as much.

You can also hold the lines tighter easier with the up-loop, as the angle when kite is higher, means tighter lines around in the carve.
When downlooping you have to sync so the kite does not downloop too early, as then you will get slack lines a lot easier when carving, more risky.

But all'n all I still think it is personal what one prefer, depending on many variables, so different for all of us, and sometimes different when we change size, as you have experienced knyfe :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Downloop vs up-loop in low wind jibes

Postby knyfe » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:53 am

Thanks for the feedback. The funny thing is that I like it differently for different kites. It’s probably has to do with the different wind ranges I use them to be marginal for each size.

I basically worked it out over many different session. Initially I did all down, then all up and at the end tunes it individually. Aesthetically I’ll like up better ;-)


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