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Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

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mirza23454
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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby mirza23454 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:57 pm

Pulled out some notes from the TKB review of the 9m: https://www.thekiteboarder.com/2022/05/ ... ltra-team/

Speed
- lightness of the airframe was noticeable in how quickly the kite accelerated across the window and how nimble it felt during turns
- lighter wind sessions, the Ultra seemed to move through lulls easier and climb to the top of the window with less drag
- fast, smooth and graceful, darts anywhere in the window like a sleek hummingbird

Steering
- steering response felt very similar to the regular Ultra but the turning speed felt slightly faster
- low-end and medium part of the kite’s wind range the extra tactile feedback is good
- on the extreme side of the high-end/over-powered riding it was a little harsh
- without much line tension, you could still command the Ultra into surprisingly responsive steering
- doesn't require much line tension to turn
- power delivery across the throw continues to feel progressive with on-demand power that compliments with nimble but controlled steering in the middle of the window which has made it a stellar foilboarding option along with fringe appeal to some casual freeriders and surfers
- snappy and light kite with direct controls and light feel at the bar, really fast turning speed

Drift
- superb drift that makes the kite float impressively while driving downwind on either a hydrofoil or a surfboard
- For carving-oriented kitefoiling and those who have embraced single-struts in the surf, the Ultra Team’s float and drift is untouchable
- drifts like a ghost
- effortless drift and always ready to respond
- hangs in the air in almost no wind
- no flutter with excellent drift

mirza23454
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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby mirza23454 » Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:13 am

Seeing these weights and US price points:

8m 1,9kg Ultra Team for $1,900
8m 1.7kg 2022 Roam Aluula for $2,500
8m 2021 Roam Aluula for $1,700 (!!!)

The question I'm curious about is what the Ultra does better than the Roam. Maybe better upwind performance and low-end power at the cost of drift and high-end?

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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby Mikkelza » Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:08 am

mirza23454 wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:13 am
Seeing these weights and US price points:

8m 1,9kg Ultra Team for $1,900
8m 1.7kg 2022 Roam Aluula for $2,500
8m 2021 Roam Aluula for $1,700 (!!!)

The question I'm curious about is what the Ultra does better than the Roam. Maybe better upwind performance and low-end power at the cost of drift and high-end?
mirza23454 I am surprised to see that the Ultra Team weight more than the 3-strut Roam. Not that convincing stat for Hookipa?! Aluula for the win?

Traditional Ultra vs. Ultra Team (from the airush.com website)
8m2: 2,04 kg vs. 1,88 kg

Regarding your question about Ultra Team vs. Roam Allula, I guess we are waiting for a Session Team (3-strut wave oriented kite).

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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby Oldman_Dave » Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:26 am

mirza23454 wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:13 am
Seeing these weights and US price points:

8m 1,9kg Ultra Team for $1,900
8m 1.7kg 2022 Roam Aluula for $2,500

The question I'm curious about is what the Ultra does better than the Roam. Maybe better upwind performance and low-end power at the cost of drift and high-end?
...
I am surprised to see that the Ultra Team weight more than the 3-strut Roam. Not that convincing stat for Hookipa?! Aluula for the win?
I think regarding weight I have read a couple of times that the designers have said Hookipa is more about strength than outright lightness. Strength = Stiffer airframe, thinner LE & Struts = more responsive/less drag/faster accelerating etc but also longer lasting/durable. Having said that I believe Aluula has held up pretty well to the test of time so far as far as durability goes.

I have recently tested A-Roam against Ultra (not Hookipa, probably 1-2 years old Ultra). I am looking to move back to inflatables from Peaks. I will still use the peaks for big wing cruisy stuff.

I found the A - Roam very impressive, light feeling and easy to handle most wind conditions. It should be a superb kite for the money and it is. There were only really a couple of negatives I found which I will list, as negatives can be more important than positives. My personal 2c, others probably completely different opinions.

I found the Roam easy to slack lines sometimes when gybing, gets a bit lost at edges of the window and takes a while to sort itself out, especially without lots of line tension. Not saying it doesn't drift well, but seems a bit random while it's drifting. Also tends to wander up and down if you're trying to fly parallel to the water, required constant steering input. Also it turns so fast it's hard to slow down to make wider loops. I'm sure muscle memory would sort that last one out.

I found the Ultra less light and forgiving feeling (more like a "normal" LEI I suppose) however the gybes were more purposeful, it was always flying forward and turning even with slack lines. It was also good with the power control, easy to send to edge and park if you wanted to cruise, or stall back into power zone for more. I think the shape, with the long sharp tips, helps with these characteristics.

I will be getting the Ultra Team, based on the Ultra's characteristics. Once I've had a few sessions I might swap with a mate's Roam and give a proper apples to apples comparison and get his feedback as well.

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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby Mikkelza » Mon Jun 13, 2022 1:41 pm

Mikkelza wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:08 am
mirza23454 wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:13 am
Seeing these weights and US price points:

8m 1,9kg Ultra Team for $1,900
8m 1.7kg 2022 Roam Aluula for $2,500
8m 2021 Roam Aluula for $1,700 (!!!)

The question I'm curious about is what the Ultra does better than the Roam. Maybe better upwind performance and low-end power at the cost of drift and high-end?
mirza23454 I am surprised to see that the Ultra Team weight more than the 3-strut Roam. Not that convincing stat for Hookipa?! Aluula for the win?

Traditional Ultra vs. Ultra Team (from the airush.com website)
8m2: 2,04 kg vs. 1,88 kg

Regarding your question about Ultra Team vs. Roam Allula, I guess we are waiting for a Session Team (3-strut wave oriented kite).
Update/in addition to my post on weights:

Airush emphasize other benefits from Hookipa than weight, e.g. higher LE pressure is possible, giving more rigid frame, possibility of a thinner LE, and a kite that flies better...

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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby MikeBirt » Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:58 am

The Hookipa cloth is an interesting one.
I think that ultimately there is a lot to this new world other than the weights.
Ultimately time will tell, but you are talking about longevity, torsional stiffness, uv resilience, and the designers ability to actually exploit these new material properties - there is a lot gong on and a lot of work to do.

It's not just a case of swapping in and out - having a tighter leading edge - more pressure and less weight - boom - performance upgrade....
everything changes and everything has to be re-engineered.

The test on the Ultra Team was impressive. We've not had them in the UK yet, but looking forwrad to trying.
We have had Hookipa in the nitro (wing) and a sample of the new Freewig Pro, and in this discipline (unsupported loadings) it's game changing.
So - exciting times ahead.

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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby MikeBirt » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:06 am

One other thing that struck me.
If weight is an issue - is anyone talking of bladder weights?
20 years ago we played with bladder thickness and the difference to the overall kite weight was noticeable and preferred, but the durability was terrible- get a bit of sand in there and you have a hole in no time.. I know for a fact that airush did not deviate from their stock weights (86gsm) and this is probably a good thing.
Anyway - I still think that the main future of these new materials is more down to the designer's ability to exploit the new material's physical characteristics more than the lightest kite wins.. There is so much going on...
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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby nothing2seehere » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:49 am

MikeBirt wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:06 am
One other thing that struck me.
If weight is an issue - is anyone talking of bladder weights?
20 years ago we played with bladder thickness and the difference to the overall kite weight was noticeable and preferred, but the durability was terrible- get a bit of sand in there and you have a hole in no time.. I know for a fact that airush did not deviate from their stock weights (86gsm) and this is probably a good thing.
Anyway - I still think that the main future of these new materials is more down to the designer's ability to exploit the new material's physical characteristics more than the lightest kite wins.. There is so much going on...
The Ocean rodeo team are talking about a new Aluula set of bladders (Aluula being the company name not the name of the fabric) they are looking to get into future kites. Looks like that will be the next big introduction. They were talking about LEI kites getting down to around the 1kg weight mark as being an achievable goal (I'm assuming this would be like a 7m or 8m kite).

They did mention how the canopy material is the current weak part of the kite though. Maybe they should be licensing the Airush canopy material with the kevlar strips? I have a V1 ultra that still looks brand new - though its mainly a hydrofoiling kite.

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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby MikeBirt » Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:58 am

nothing2seehere wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:49 am
MikeBirt wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:06 am
One other thing that struck me.
If weight is an issue - is anyone talking of bladder weights?
20 years ago we played with bladder thickness and the difference to the overall kite weight was noticeable and preferred, but the durability was terrible- get a bit of sand in there and you have a hole in no time.. I know for a fact that airush did not deviate from their stock weights (86gsm) and this is probably a good thing.
Anyway - I still think that the main future of these new materials is more down to the designer's ability to exploit the new material's physical characteristics more than the lightest kite wins.. There is so much going on...
The Ocean rodeo team are talking about a new Aluula set of bladders (Aluula being the company name not the name of the fabric) they are looking to get into future kites. Looks like that will be the next big introduction. They were talking about LEI kites getting down to around the 1kg weight mark as being an achievable goal (I'm assuming this would be like a 7m or 8m kite).

They did mention how the canopy material is the current weak part of the kite though. Maybe they should be licensing the Airush canopy material with the kevlar strips? I have a V1 ultra that still looks brand new - though its mainly a hydrofoiling kite.
Listening to the team, I heard that Airush has done a fair amount of testing on bladders - over the last 5 years bladder weights have reduced around 25% in weight. They always do it with extensive long term testing and phase it in across product lines, so they don’t talk much about it. They are very focused on reliability, which is good as I Iive on the client brand interface, lol.

I really believe the load frame does add to the lifespan of the kite as it prevents the canopy from excessive load, as most of the primary load runs through the Ultra PE web. We VERY rarely get full canopy failures at all, and if it happens it goes from one web string to the next, a very short and easily fixed distance.

They experimented with various materials early on, including carbon and aramid (Kevlar) but the Ultra PE material has some initial elongation before it takes the load, which suits the canopy characteristics well to minimize any tension lines. It does add quite a bit to the price, which is of course a negative.

The canopy on a current 8m kite is around 400 grams. (around 50gsm). Going back in time Alex Pastor did run a Custom 14.5 Freestyle kite for extreme light winds which had cloth around 35 gsm, but Airush were not convinced for production even with the load frame. Interesting to see the potential in this area, might even be in laminates.

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Re: Any news about the Airush Ultra Team?

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:38 am

MikeBirt wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:58 am
nothing2seehere wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:49 am
MikeBirt wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:06 am
One other thing that struck me.
If weight is an issue - is anyone talking of bladder weights?
20 years ago we played with bladder thickness and the difference to the overall kite weight was noticeable and preferred, but the durability was terrible- get a bit of sand in there and you have a hole in no time.. I know for a fact that airush did not deviate from their stock weights (86gsm) and this is probably a good thing.
Anyway - I still think that the main future of these new materials is more down to the designer's ability to exploit the new material's physical characteristics more than the lightest kite wins.. There is so much going on...
The Ocean rodeo team are talking about a new Aluula set of bladders (Aluula being the company name not the name of the fabric) they are looking to get into future kites. Looks like that will be the next big introduction. They were talking about LEI kites getting down to around the 1kg weight mark as being an achievable goal (I'm assuming this would be like a 7m or 8m kite).

They did mention how the canopy material is the current weak part of the kite though. Maybe they should be licensing the Airush canopy material with the kevlar strips? I have a V1 ultra that still looks brand new - though its mainly a hydrofoiling kite.
Listening to the team, I heard that Airush has done a fair amount of testing on bladders - over the last 5 years bladder weights have reduced around 25% in weight. They always do it with extensive long term testing and phase it in across product lines, so they don’t talk much about it. They are very focused on reliability, which is good as I Iive on the client brand interface, lol.

I really believe the load frame does add to the lifespan of the kite as it prevents the canopy from excessive load, as most of the primary load runs through the Ultra PE web. We VERY rarely get full canopy failures at all, and if it happens it goes from one web string to the next, a very short and easily fixed distance.

They experimented with various materials early on, including carbon and aramid (Kevlar) but the Ultra PE material has some initial elongation before it takes the load, which suits the canopy characteristics well to minimize any tension lines. It does add quite a bit to the price, which is of course a negative.

The canopy on a current 8m kite is around 400 grams. (around 50gsm). Going back in time Alex Pastor did run a Custom 14.5 Freestyle kite for extreme light winds which had cloth around 35 gsm, but Airush were not convinced for production even with the load frame. Interesting to see the potential in this area, might even be in laminates.
Out of interest. Did you get any feeling about why the load frame was dropped for the latest Lithium? Just as the kite performance is tweaked to be a popular intermediate kite (did well in the blank kite test and mac kiting made very positive comments about it) then the unique sales point is removed?


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