Begginer 1250 cm2 Wing

[Flyboy]

I'm 92kg and managed to do curving turn transitions on small Zeeko Blaster foil which has surface area 700cm2 and a key was to be powered at 18kts on mine 8m XR6.
I did buy month ago a Nobile Surf Foil which is 1300cm2 as I wanted more surfy feeling and being able to levitate at lower speed but it waits for April for a fly test
Never tried footswitches while levitating at my zeeko blaster feels way too twitchy for my level of riding at the moment.

You "managed to do" - ok. I "managed to do" carving transitions with a 700 cm2 Zeeko wing also. But if you're 18 kg lighter than Lamilu & needing 18 kts. to achieve those carving transitions, that's not really a way forward for Lamilu. The 1000 cm2 Gong Pro that I started using after the Zeeko immediately gave me way more stability through the turns & allowed me to carve turns at 10 knots & keep foiling even when I was at a virtual standstill for a couple of seconds. I think that's the kind of performance Lamilu is looking for ... not sure what exactly wing would deliver that at 110 kg, but there's no doubt a bigger wing would definitely make a significant difference.

[Peter_Frank]

The bigger wing will always make it easier to make transitions, no comparison whatsoever

More glide?
Only if you get a bigger high aspect wing.
Easier - yes, both with a bigger high aspect and low aspect wing.

You dont need glide really, for kitehydrofoiling - eventhough some like it.
Glide, which usually is short for glide ratio, is the ability to continue for a long time without any power and without dropping much.
Important if you surf swells without any kite or wing power.
The thing you mean with glide (I believe) is probably the ability to ride on for quite some time without power, till you need power again.
It is technically called "sink rate".
Sink rate and ability to ride on without or with little power, is the same for low and high aspect wings.
A high aspect wing can sink a tad less yes, but a low aspect wing can ride longer till it stalls - so it will be about the same in real life.

It is personal preference whether you want a wing with glide, or a wing which turns fast and easy - they are opposing properties.
But a bigger wing, no matter if high or low aspect, will give you lower sink rate meaning everything gets easier, you can ride smaller kites, and you have longer time before it drops when learning new things

You are too new I assume, to know what you want in the long run?
You did not write about that.

Going fast and jumping?
Freeride carving and practicing transitions and 360s?
Or small wave riding/carving?

Assume you will love the two last things, as you are new, and everything is easier with a bigger wing.

So get a 1250 cm2 wing (at least), not too high span (= not too high aspect)

And you will learn faster, and have a better tool for fun also in just small windwaves, or bigger waves.

Most average weights with the two latter preferences have wings between 1000 and 1200 cm2.

Your 1000 cm2 wing corresponds to something around 700 cm2 for average weights, and hardly noone uses these sizes the last many years (except for racers).

So just go BIG

Peter

[flaps1111]

Sabfoil w790/S483 and Airush Ultra 14m or/and 12m 25/27mts lines are your passport to success.
120 cm board. You don't need any more I promise.
If you want to ride in 8 knots I mean. Then if you want to ride faster in 10 knots just change only your front wing to w633 if you want to go even faster w679.
This is a carving/freeride set up. If you want to go really fast you need more technical and difficult race gear.

W790/S483 really works for kitefoiling? At what wind intensity it becomes too big? 12…15…kn?
What is gained in lowend from w633 vs w790?

I weigh 85 kg dry, wet about 90kg... I use the w790 wing from 6/7 to 10 knots, for that range is the most fun, if I go to the beach and there are 12 knots I ride w633. if there are more than 18 knots w679. I do multiple combinations with wings and kites, like many I like to go with the perfect wing and kite size for the wind, so I can change wing and / or kite in the same session because my thing is to do maneuvers constantly.
I think it depends on what you are looking for and your style, there is not a kit for everyone.
But if with 110kg you want to ride easily without doubt the w790.

[Lamilu]

Well…been to the shop…looking for something bigger…did not do it…what I did is sell/swap my Mirrage 1000 complete for Moses 679 + 421 stabilizer plus diference… mainly the cost of a 92 carbon mast… both have approximately the same areas… could perhaps be similar in riding…
This puts me now in a position to experiment first what bigger wing to buy. ( moses local dealer has several used 633 and 790 … not a option for Fone… and now…more options…maybe something in between 633/790 with higher AR not primarily designed for kiting…W799/W899…has anybody used this in light wind kitefoiling? The only inconvenience in higher AR is braking surface?
( just a coment on my new setup…what good does a light carbon mast and wings do if you connect all in a lead fuselage? This surf fuselage from Moses is ridiculosly heavy…not sure total weight saved from Fone carbon integraded fuselage and aluminium mast)

[Flyboy]

Well…been to the shop…looking for something bigger…did not do it…what I did is sell/swap my Mirrage 1000 complete for Moses 679 + 421 stabilizer plus diference… mainly the cost of a 92 carbon mast… both have approximately the same areas… could perhaps be similar in riding…
This puts me now in a position to experiment first what bigger wing to buy. ( moses local dealer has several used 633 and 790 … not a option for Fone… and now…more options…maybe something in between 633/790 with higher AR not primarily designed for kiting…W799/W899…has anybody used this in light wind kitefoiling? The only inconvenience in higher AR is braking surface?
( just a coment on my new setup…what good does a light carbon mast and wings do if you connect all in a lead fuselage? This surf fuselage from Moses is ridiculosly heavy…not sure total weight saved from Fone carbon integraded fuselage and aluminium mast)

I'm not that familiar with F-One gear, but isn't there a 1200 cm2 version of the Mirage?

I'm a little surprised to see the limited range of suitable wings available from Sabfoil (although they do have a range of more race oriented wings). If you go to the Gong website you will find 5 distinct wing lines, each available in a variety of sizes. Also, an integrated "mono bloc" carbon/mast fuselage. They actually seem to have pretty good availability in many of the foil products at the minute.

https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/category ... -masts-en/

[Lamilu]

Mirrage 1000 is the biggest kite specific…
They have the Phantoms…oriented towards winging and surfing…
Gong is not an option in Brazil…unless you bring it in yourself.
I believe…there is a lack/few kite specific foils in the 1250…+…range….thin and fast with low AR and moderate lift…leaving us heavy beginners with surf/wing options that soon become overpowered or breach surface as wind increases…
I really havent tried the 633…maybe its all one needs…but for sure it is different if you way 70 kg from 110 kg…

[azoele]

Hi Lamilu,

I do not know your foil, so take my comments with a pinch of salt.
But: am your very same weight!

I started with a 633 Moses, which is a performing, but twitchy setup.
While I was learning flying footswitches, I bought a carbon GONG set (it is still on sale, also in the ridiculously affordable aluminium version) because I was curious.

The set was not easy: it is composed of a large, sweet front wing (Curve L, 1300cmq, pretty thick), and their most radical stabilo (Fast 40, 210cmq, ultrathin).
It was not nice, believe me: the back stalled a lot earlier than the front, and by stalling it would send the foil upwards! The first time it launched me because I was unprepared

Then I added their Surf 45 stabilizer (400cmq, and thick), and... it changed my foil completely.
It would now carve easily, but it would be a lot more stable at slow speeds, lose its twitchyness under the feet, and felt ridiculously stable. So much so that I immediately started getting my footswitches in flight.
After a good many hours, I finally switched back to the original stabilizer, and it took me a little to become comfortable again: the foil was again "lively" under my feet.
Eventually, I loved the small stabilizer... and found the big rise 45 stabilizer... sleepy

Long story short: you may look for a big stabilizer in your brand's lineup, to tame the beast until you are ready. It will give you stability in the 3 axes, which will be like engaging "slow motion" to learn. Super.
Or: you may get a super cheap set from GONG (they're below 400€, or 570€ in the newest ultra-stiff aluminium construction.

By the way: front wings and stabilizers are not carved in stone.
At times you will love a faster front wing, at others you'll want a more carvy and slower one, and the same will be with stabilizers and their combinations.
That is why a rich system (like Sabfoil) is key, and why "affordable" may also be important (Gong!).

What is carved in stone is my belief: an easier foil will do wonders to progress, and be the perfect platform to later enjoy your manouvers on more radical foils.


Have fun!

I am a beginer kite hydrofoil on the heavy side, 110kg, that started with a Fone Mirrage 1000.
In a straight line, once powered, no problem…
But transitions are complicated…only landing…with 50% success…
Maybe I feel now I was over optimistic in not going for a absolute beginer foil…
And in light days…Kite hydrofoil hasnt really met my 8-10 knots expectations…
So…am considering going back…maybe more area on a front wing/stabilizer…
Am considering 1250cm2…
Moses? Core? Slingshot?…Any Other?
Since it is a investment…
Will the bigger wing fulfill my expectations? 8-12 knots better glide…easier transitions?
Or the difference is so small not worth the investment?
Core has a kit in RealKiteboarding that has a 1000 and 1250 front wing package…
Which of the 1250 wings will not bore the rider after a short time? Only Moses?
Thank You

[Flyboy]

Hi Lamilu,

I do not know your foil, so take my comments with a pinch of salt.
But: am your very same weight!

I started with a 633 Moses, which is a performing, but twitchy setup.
While I was learning flying footswitches, I bought a carbon GONG set (it is still on sale, also in the ridiculously affordable aluminium version) because I was curious.

The set was not easy: it is composed of a large, sweet front wing (Curve L, 1300cmq, pretty thick), and their most radical stabilo (Fast 40, 210cmq, ultrathin).
It was not nice, believe me: the back stalled a lot earlier than the front, and by stalling it would send the foil upwards! The first time it launched me because I was unprepared

Then I added their Surf 45 stabilizer (400cmq, and thick), and... it changed my foil completely.
It would now carve easily, but it would be a lot more stable at slow speeds, lose its twitchyness under the feet, and felt ridiculously stable. So much so that I immediately started getting my footswitches in flight.
After a good many hours, I finally switched back to the original stabilizer, and it took me a little to become comfortable again: the foil was again "lively" under my feet.
Eventually, I loved the small stabilizer... and found the big rise 45 stabilizer... sleepy

Long story short: you may look for a big stabilizer in your brand's lineup, to tame the beast until you are ready. It will give you stability in the 3 axes, which will be like engaging "slow motion" to learn. Super.
Or: you may get a super cheap set from GONG (they're below 400€, or 570€ in the newest ultra-stiff aluminium construction.

By the way: front wings and stabilizers are not carved in stone.
At times you will love a faster front wing, at others you'll want a more carvy and slower one, and the same will be with stabilizers and their combinations.
That is why a rich system (like Sabfoil) is key, and why "affordable" may also be important (Gong!).

Intereresting. I have the Curve M. It came with the Curve stabilizer & seemed like a fine combo to me. I later got the Fast 40/210 stab with another foil set. I found it a little more twitchy, but much faster & smoother & quickly adjusted to it. I suspect that once you have the technique to do stuff, adapting it to a more challenging set up is relatively straightforward.

Can Gong not be shipped to Brazil? The advantage of Gong, as azoele points out, is their gear is much less expensive. The disadvantage is you have to ship from France. I haven't been following the development of SabFoil in the last couple of years - they certainly have a full range of more race-oriented foils, but Gong seems to have a a really extensive range of more surf-oriented foils, with a complete choice of wing sizes.

[azoele]

Hi Flyboy,

I never tried the Curve M, but I owned both the M-T and the L, and in my experience they are quite different – at least with 110kg standing on the board.
So much so that I'd rather not recommend the M size of the Curve (or the M-T) to someone who is not yet proficient: the M-T has more stall resistance than the M, and still drops like a brick under a heavyweight. On the other hand, to someone who is good, by all means go M (or with the new Fluid & Veloce lines, even smaller...).

The L size (1300cmq, and very thick for low speed lift) is much, much better for this at over 100Kg, and probably even for lighter people as a very, very forgiving wing.
Paired with the appropriate stabilizer gives the foil the feeling of a living room table, so stable it gets But great to learn advanced manouvers on.

Also, totally agree on GONG being accessible (if they deliver at a reasonable cost). Thanks to their price policy I have been able to try 6 front wings and 7 stabilizers!
(spoiler: you almost always end up preferring the Fast 40 stabilizer when kiting, no matter your front wing )
Surprising how much one can refine his/her riding if given the chance to test different materials

[Flyboy]

Hi Flyboy,

I never tried the Curve M, but I owned both the M-T and the L, and in my experience they are quite different – at least with 110kg standing on the board.
So much so that I'd rather not recommend the M size of the Curve (or the M-T) to someone who is not yet proficient: the M-T has more stall resistance than the M, and still drops like a brick under a heavyweight. On the other hand, to someone who is good, by all means go M (or with the new Fluid & Veloce lines, even smaller...).

The L size (1300cmq, and very thick for low speed lift) is much, much better for this at over 100Kg, and probably even for lighter people as a very, very forgiving wing.
Paired with the appropriate stabilizer gives the foil the feeling of a living room table, so stable it gets But great to learn advanced manouvers on.

Also, totally agree on GONG being accessible (if they deliver at a reasonable cost). Thanks to their price policy I have been able to try 6 front wings and 7 stabilizers!
(spoiler: you almost always end up preferring the Fast 40 stabilizer when kiting, no matter your front wing )
Surprising how much one can refine his/her riding if given the chance to test different materials

Yes - I definitely wouldn't recommend the Curve M for a 110 kg foiler. Makes more sense to get something bigger. The great thing about Gong is they have a lot of different size options. I have considered getting another Gong wing - the Curve MT, a Fluid, a Veloce or one of the new Fluid T wings - but so far have elected to just stick with the Curve M. I get the impression that the Gong crew have settled on the Fast 40 stabilizer for ALL their foiling - kite, wing & surf.