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Gong foils: discussion

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merl
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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby merl » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:53 am

Interesting info... not sure I am ready to buy another mast... v1 monoblock 2.5kg, v2 mono, 2.8kg (not such a big difference), but the "V3" with the alu fuse at 3.3kg (you included the base plate in that weight?) is getting quite heavy. Maybe gong will come up with a carbon fuse - the existing one must be like 1kg. Or maybe a third party could come up with a slimmer one together with different stab...

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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby ieism » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:18 pm

I have the V2 alu mast, and the only thing I don't love about my setup is the weight. But no weights for the carbon mast + alu fuse is on the website so it's hard to justify the upgrade.

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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby Herman » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:22 pm

Is the Rise too lifty for kite foiling, if not, how does the Rise M compare to the Moses 633 ?

Perhaps I should ask which Gong foil is most like the Moses 633 ?

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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby bitxopalo » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:47 pm

Hey I have used the rise M to learn kiting, is stable and gets up at ridiculous speed. Is good for learning if you have no experience and no help (my case :-?)

But is very draggy and soon you will need a little more speed. Now I have the curve and pretty happy is also stable much faster and turns better. Curve M is similar to 633.

I recomend you the curve.
M or L.. Depending of you weight and local wind speed

Hope it helps.
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Ulrik
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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby Ulrik » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:19 pm

Herman wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:22 pm
Is the Rise too lifty for kite foiling, if not, how does the Rise M compare to the Moses 633 ?

Perhaps I should ask which Gong foil is most like the Moses 633 ?
The Curve M is closest to the 633.
I find the Curve M to be too lifty /draggy for my taste ( My previous foil was a Zeeko with 535 and 710 cm2 frontwings, so I´m not used to large wings)
I now ride the Veloce M (and Veloce backwing), and it is perfect for me:
Lift not quite as explosive as the Curve M
Better top speed, and less drag.
A little more challenging to jibe (but that is mainly because of the Veloce backwing)

Gong has a video explaining the different wings here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDYcIhdW60
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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby Janus » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:36 pm

ieism wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:18 pm
I have the V2 alu mast, and the only thing I don't love about my setup is the weight. But no weights for the carbon mast + alu fuse is on the website so it's hard to justify the upgrade.
85cm = 2370 gram

That’s inclusive stick on rubber baseplate

So I showed you mine, you show me yours.. :lol:
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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby azoele » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:20 pm

Janus wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:36 pm
ieism wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:18 pm
I have the V2 alu mast, and the only thing I don't love about my setup is the weight. But no weights for the carbon mast + alu fuse is on the website so it's hard to justify the upgrade.
85cm = 2370 gram

That’s inclusive stick on rubber baseplate

So I showed you mine, you show me yours.. :lol:

Hi Janus,
talk about manufacturing variations! :roll:
My 100cm is 2326gr (lighter than your 85!)
My 85cm is 2150gr (almost 10% lighter than yours)
Neither was weighted with the silicone pad (maybe 30gr?). I wonder if my scale is out of order, if yours is, or if variation is this high. (but I have another scale, and they usually differ 5/10gr at the most).

My 2 V.2 fuselages weigh 935gr and 953gr respectively, about 2% variation for the heavier.

A fellow rider weighted his V.2 Alu 85cm + fuselage at about 3.600 gr, so about half a kilo lighter than the Carbon.

@merl: yes, V.3 carbon is about 3.3Kg complete with the fuselage. Yes, it feels heavier. Yes, much heavier than V1. :wink:
But: V.2 and V.3 are no match for the V.1 in feeling and rigidity.
If you want, I'll sell you my V.2 carbon monoblock with 6months life (and no jumps, as I'm not able to!): this is a great testament to how nice the V.3 is, weight be damned! :D
Last: no, apparently no carbon fuselage expected.
I seem to remember l'Ours himself answered me on their forums, stating Carbon fuselages were dropped because they will eventually break under the big loads of the large wingfoiling wings (despite being very much reinforced in the V.2, as it easy to check by attaching a wing and "flexing it"), especially with so many wingers jumping.
With kite (and kitefoil) "dying" discipline compared to the explosion in Wingfoiling, no sense in making lighter kitefoil masts...
For the moment the V.2 fuselage it is then, despite the weight.
But: a new "Pro" fuselage was hinted by l'Ours, but he added zero other detail, just "available later in 2022".
Me, I dreamt of a fuselage that allows changing the stabilizer distance: same stabilizer, radically different behaviours :thumb:
Let me repeat again, though: the V.2, and the V.3 even more, ride fantastically for reactivity and feeling :thumb:

@Ulrik
I never tried the Curve M (but used the M-T and the L).
By admission of the GONG people though, the M is not like the 633. It was just "the wing that might more easily be compared to the 633 in the lineup". No GONG wing of that era could match the 633 for pivot turning (even when fitted with the very big 483 stabilizer).
I am not sure any wing will do it today, as that is not the direction they (and other producers AFAIK) are going. (more A/R, more glide, new designs with higher lift with lower surfaces). The 633 is quite a radical design.
You can achieve something similar (but not identical) with fast M wings (i.e. the Veloce) and the FAST40 stab (which will give you a "skatey" feeling and will turn tight). You'll get very a exciting foil, but still not really similar to 633 methinks.
My Fluid L-S with Fast 40 turns very tight, but the Onda in my memory does it a bit tighter still.
Now: this does not mean 633 is better. Just tastes. For me, the Fluid L-S trounces the 633 in every metric for my use. :thumb:
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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby trendab » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:35 pm

Thanks for these awesome posts, Azoele. I believe I read that you did not like your Curve MT. May I ask why? I am a beginner and currently riding an MT. Works fine for me, but I have nothing to compare with.

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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby eloico » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:47 pm

is the fuild LS too big for kitefoiling for somebody with 72 kgs? how does it compare to curve MT?

thanks.

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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby azoele » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:18 pm

trendab wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:35 pm
Thanks for these awesome posts, Azoele. I believe I read that you did not like your Curve MT. May I ask why? I am a beginner and currently riding an MT. Works fine for me, but I have nothing to compare with.
It is a pure matter of taste.
I find the Curve L very calm and safe (although it can go fast, I hit 21 knots with it). It also ahs lots of lift, and a gentle stall character.
At my weight the Curve M-T does offer a bit more glide, some less resistance, but it stalls quite earlier, and more abruptly. Also, a stall is a stall: almost always a pluff in the water :D

So, I never gelled with it.
The Veloce M stalls even quicker and more abruptly than the Curve M-T (as does the Fluid L/L-s), but the Fluid and the Veloce can be recovered, because sinking they accelerate, so once you learn, stalling gets just normal behaviour with which you can cope with.
But those are more difficult wings.

Beware, though: it really depends on a LOT of factors (rider skill, weight, conditions, and rider's preferences).
I love the Fluid L-S but you may well find it too nervous, or too temperamental (yes, it stalls even quicker than the Curve M-T...). For people riding the FLuid M-S or S, or similar wings from other producers, my L-S may feel lethargic.

So: preferences + skill + conditions.
And: change only if you really feel you need too, because you think you will do something better.
If you want to go faster, but hardly do the footswitch, or jibe with difficulty (let's not even talk about tacking, which is a world unto itself...), why bother? :thumb:
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