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Gong foils: discussion

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merl
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Gong foils: discussion

Postby merl » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:07 pm

[Edited to make the thread more general and include the list of stabs]

Gong have an amazing number of wings. It might be nice to have a thread to discuss the huge range and their features.

I'll kick off with a specific question:

I have a Veloce M (950, 0.6L) and a Curve L (1300, 1.6L) + fast stab. I prefer the liveliness of the Veloce M but sometimes it feels a bit small (me: 92kg). It is probably a good combo with the floaty L for light wind days, but I am thinking about getting a Fluid LS (1100) as something that might replace them both as an allrounder. It is listed at 1L volume. Is that a floater (like the Curve L) or a sinker (like the Veloce M)?

GONG-SIZECHART-FRONT_WINGS-ALL-GONGFOIL.png
GONG-STABS0-SIZECHART-STABS-ALL-GONGFOIL.png
Last edited by merl on Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gong foils. Fluid LS anyone?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:51 pm

I think the Fluid LS can be used as a "one for all" instead of your two other wings.

Whether it is a floater or not, no idea, and depends on whether you have the carbon mast/fuselage or the aluminium gear.
With alu it does not float, thats for sure.

I have two Curve wings (sold the big one now), one Fluid, and one Veloce and a carbon mast/fuselage on one board, and the aluminium setup on the other board.
But for wingfoil only, so can not say how the smaller wings will work for kitefoil.

Only that a Fluid size "in between" so to speak, works well for me, and is my go-to wing for everything.

8) Peter
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Re: Gong foils. Fluid LS anyone?

Postby Iridian » Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:35 am

I have a Curve MT if you want it. Might fit the middle gap. No idea on the fluid tho.

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Re: Gong foils. Fluid LS anyone?

Postby merl » Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:30 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:51 pm
I think the Fluid LS can be used as a "one for all" instead of your two other wings.

Whether it is a floater or not, no idea, and depends on whether you have the carbon mast/fuselage or the aluminium gear.
With alu it does not float, thats for sure.

I have two Curve wings (sold the big one now), one Fluid, and one Veloce and a carbon mast/fuselage on one board, and the aluminium setup on the other board.
But for wingfoil only, so can not say how the smaller wings will work for kitefoil.

Only that a Fluid size "in between" so to speak, works well for me, and is my go-to wing for everything.

8) Peter
Thanks Peter. I have the same as you: carbon on one board and an alu setup for quick access to shallow spots on the other. For my current wings, one floats with both and one sinks with both. @Iridian: thanks for the offer but not quite what I am looking for.

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Re: Gong foils. Fluid LS anyone?

Postby azoele » Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:54 am

Very different wings, imho, the Veloce, Fluid and Curve, but all very nice in their specific way.

  • Gong works to adapt size to size across lines, so that behaviour can be comparable within the same "official sizing": an M will behave as an M, mostly, even in the -T declinations, while an L will be an L, even in the -S declinations. So, expect (much) more comfort on the L-S at your weight.
  • Fluid L and L-S do *not* become physical with speed with Fast stab as the Veloce M, which needs lots of front pressure. Totally different behaviour.
  • Also: much better Yaw control with Fluid and Fast: a lot easier to go faster. I’m a super slow foiler, and yet I hit 22 knots few days ago, and get to 20 easily now with the L-S + Fast.
  • Fluid L-S carves easily and holds the line when carving hard, and yet loses little speed. Not as efficient as the Veloce, but *a lot* better than the Curve for this, which loses much speed. Yuo have them, you will know what happens when you are foiling, and let the bar go: the Veloce glides losing little speed, the Curve slows down considerably.
  • Paired with the Fluid 40 stab it goes into “railroad mode”: turns are a bit harder (need to inclinate the board and push on the back) but they are radical as no “sliding” is felt. I do not like it, prefer the Fast, but it is certainly an option if you like more locked in feeling during hard turns, which can be quite addictive at times.
  • Like Veloce, Fluid allows you “pumping recovery” at stall: when you stall, let it fall, push hard on the back, and you have extra time to regain speed. Curves… they do not pump (maybe the -T, but I did not like my M-T, sold it almost immediately)
  • Stalling: Veloce M then Fluid L-S then Fluid L (a fraction later than the L-S, but you’ll notice the first times) then Veloce L (which is a sweet, sweet wing for kiting…)
  • Fluid L-S and L not too different. You feel a tad less stability on L-S and a bit earlier stall, but differences, while noticeable, are much less than what you get by changing size (i.e. M to L). Both are very much fun.
  • Floating, as Peter said: a lot depends on your mast. New carbon mast has Alu fuselage, very heavy at bottom. Still, I find my L-S to float quite a bit with it. Floats even better on my v.2 carbon mast with the integrated carbon fuselage. No Moses 633 like which will stay there forever, but it gives plenty of time for strapless water start.
My opinion, at about 110Kg: the Fluid L-S with the Fast is a fantastic combination. The only one I use now in 6 knots or in 25 knots.
Super light wind just pump during waterstart and then enjoy the glide, gain speed and maintain it, without the killer stall of the Veloce M, and if it stalls during a jibe just pump and keep it up, and if you can get a tiny bit more speed, you can tack and do the same.
Higher winds in the waves… fantastic.
Less frantic than the Veloce M, which is quite adrenalinic at my weight, and more punitive (and really needs a Veloce stab if you wish to go fast). Just super.

Curve L is nice, gentle, effective, stalls sweetly (but not recoverable) and loses lots of speed to drag.
I liked it a lot, but newer ones… much better, imho.

You may also want to try a Veloce L, by the way.
With a Veloce 39 stab it is agile, glides, enormous low end and very very much fun on the waves.
I used it before the Fluid, and I keep it because it is a very pleasant wing , and I want to try it with the Fast stab to losen it up even more.
(tested it with Veloce 43 stab, it was not nice at all).

I am contemplating now the addition of a M-S size, for those days when I feel I'm really on the ball (they would probably be a couple a year... :D ).
But it will be tough.

P.S.
can I ask you where you got that fantastic compendium of Gong wings/stabs? :thumb:

P.P.S.
if you can read french (or if you wish to use Google translate) there's lots of (admittedly sparse) information on GONG's forum, may be worth a visit.
Also: while the Fast is certainly the most "radical" stab in the lineup (it's a "race style" 210sqcm stab with zero aid for yaw control, after all) there's a lot to like in the others.
GONG crew swears by the new Curve stab, with the vertical winglets, as the best compromise for radical drive and control.
As they are relatively cheap, not much damage in trying... just buy the smallest size available for kiting :thumb:
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Re: Gong foils. Fluid LS anyone?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:53 am

I also like the overview merl :thumb:

Had to make one myself, at least with the Curve and Fluid and Veloce, to keep track on projected areas and AR and span and volume of the different wings.

But you have one right here, from their website, or did you make it?

Have seen several brands delivering AR as span divided by center chord, which makes no sense.

It has to be span/average chord, or a lot easier: span*span/area.
Then one can always discuss whether it should be projected area or surface area or "flat" surface area - but small differences only (as long as you dont use "felt" area)
Prefer to use projected area myself.

AR is correct on the overview you have shown :D

8) Peter

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Re: Gong foils. Fluid LS anyone?

Postby Janus » Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:10 pm

The overviews (also with stabs) are on the Gong website:
https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/category ... elages-en/
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merl
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Re: Gong foils. Fluid LS anyone?

Postby merl » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:26 pm

Janus wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:10 pm
The overviews (also with stabs) are on the Gong website:
https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/category ... elages-en/
Indeed - it seems fairly new.

I've added the stabs to the first post, and generalised the topic for general discussion.

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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby merl » Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:36 pm

Fantastic post Azoele! I have V1 masts, so a bit lighter than the new ones but a bit less volume. I actually prefer a sinking foil, but then strapless can be tricky in very light winds I find, so a slow-sinking foil is perfect in my opinion.

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Re: Gong foils: discussion

Postby azoele » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:34 pm

merl wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:36 pm
Fantastic post Azoele! I have V1 masts, so a bit lighter than the new ones but a bit less volume. I actually prefer a sinking foil, but then strapless can be tricky in very light winds I find, so a slow-sinking foil is perfect in my opinion.
Hi Merl,

my pleasure :wink:

Just a further comment: the V.1 carbon mast is a sweet setup, very light.
What you do not get with it, is rigidity.

So, considering they have the V.2 carbon on sale (the 100cm version) at 479€, well, I'd give it a thought: the difference is very, very significant, and you'd feel it from the very first meters.
The V.2 will make you think you swapped your board for something a lot harder :D In reality, mast flex is much more limited, so you'll get:
  • this weird feeling of having your feet on the ground, rather than on the water
  • a lot more input from your foil, meaning you'll feel much more of what is happening (I confess: first minutes I kept falling because of this overload)
  • quicker/more radical steering and input, which makes aggressive carving (but also higher speed riding) more effective and controllable
I "miss" the V.1 just for the weight and comfort, but the V.2 is a definite improvement, despite the increased weight.

V.3 is better still: it gave me the curious feeling of having my "feet on the foil". But it's gained further weight (it's about 3.3Kg in 100cm, 3Kg in 85cm with the Alu fuselage). You may not need that. I was just very curious :roll:

All the best, and enjoy riding!
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