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tacking with long lines

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dkazhdan
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tacking with long lines

Postby dkazhdan » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:42 am

Do you guys know if it's possible to do duck tacks with 29m lines?
The problem i am facing is that the kite seems to be too slow to move to the other side of the window.

The only way i manage to pull one off occasionally is when i downloop the kite but then I inevitably touch down every single time.

Wondering if its even technically possible to tack with long lines downlooping the kite?

thanks all.

azoele
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Re: tacking with long lines

Postby azoele » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:36 am

Have never attempted it, but I don't see why not.
Are you using foils or LEI kites?

I duck tuck my slow 15m foil kite with 22m lines in 6 knots, provided I gain *enough speed* before the tack.
It is all about timing. And yes: looping is your friend.
Also: if you're using such long lines it's probably because wind is very poor.
In stronger winds I can be lazy and allow my board to point very much downwind (like if I were 360ing), kite will be reactive and pull me out of the tack.
But in very light wind, I learned to keep my tack "acute", that is not to point the board downwind too much, but rather to stop its "turning" while still going upwind in the new direction. This keeps proper line tension, so that the kite is responsive and has a chance to loop.
(never do any tack without loops... not able to)
On my 15m I *really* have to pull hard to make it loop in time, but now I manage to do it, and don't need to resort to jibes in ultra light wind.

Now, a clarification: I am using a large-ish foil surf (1100sqcm, although at 110kg). Perhaps things get more dicey with smaller foils.
But if I make it with such a *slow* moving foil kite and my weight in that wind... you should too, I'm honestly a pretty low bar to use as an example :D
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Jyoder
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Re: tacking with long lines

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:31 pm

Sorry if you already know all this:

If the kite feels too slow at top of window and you lose speed and energy during a tack, you might be:

1. Sending the kite too soon so that it slows down and sits at 12 o’clock with no apparent wind
2. Sheeting in too much, which is slowing the kite down (see 1)
3. Turning the board to point downwind too soon which reduces line tension and slows the kite down.
4. Not turning bar hard enough so that the kite doesn’t turn down in the window to get more power to ride out of tack.

If under-powered, try sending the kite later as you carve upwind, it will stay powered and give more lift for footswitch. Make sure you sheet way way out and crank the bar hard. You probably think you’re turning the bar enough but normal muscle memory will have you sheet in a bit to get that bar pressure and feeling of authority which is probably sheeting too much and I bet you can just turn it more sheeted out. take a look and see.

I can get nice lifty tacks on 4m kite on race foil by doing the above, sending the kite late makes it zoom across the window with good apparent wind and provides the lift.

On big slow 11-18m kites even a bit too much sheeting in will stall then up top but if you really sheet out and crank the bar, you maintain all this power and can ride straight out on reach without pointing down wind at all.
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dkazhdan (Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:26 pm)
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dkazhdan
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Posts: 79
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Re: tacking with long lines

Postby dkazhdan » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:46 pm

azoele wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:36 am
Have never attempted it, but I don't see why not.
Are you using foils or LEI kites?

I duck tuck my slow 15m foil kite with 22m lines in 6 knots, provided I gain *enough speed* before the tack.
It is all about timing. And yes: looping is your friend.
Also: if you're using such long lines it's probably because wind is very poor.
In stronger winds I can be lazy and allow my board to point very much downwind (like if I were 360ing), kite will be reactive and pull me out of the tack.
But in very light wind, I learned to keep my tack "acute", that is not to point the board downwind too much, but rather to stop its "turning" while still going upwind in the new direction. This keeps proper line tension, so that the kite is responsive and has a chance to loop.
(never do any tack without loops... not able to)
On my 15m I *really* have to pull hard to make it loop in time, but now I manage to do it, and don't need to resort to jibes in ultra light wind.

Now, a clarification: I am using a large-ish foil surf (1100sqcm, although at 110kg). Perhaps things get more dicey with smaller foils.
But if I make it with such a *slow* moving foil kite and my weight in that wind... you should too, I'm honestly a pretty low bar to use as an example :D
thanks very useful info, do you switch feet during your tacks?

dkazhdan
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Posts: 79
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Re: tacking with long lines

Postby dkazhdan » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:55 pm

Jyoder wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:31 pm
Sorry if you already know all this:

If the kite feels too slow at top of window and you lose speed and energy during a tack, you might be:

1. Sending the kite too soon so that it slows down and sits at 12 o’clock with no apparent wind
2. Sheeting in too much, which is slowing the kite down (see 1)
3. Turning the board to point downwind too soon which reduces line tension and slows the kite down.
4. Not turning bar hard enough so that the kite doesn’t turn down in the window to get more power to ride out of tack.

If under-powered, try sending the kite later as you carve upwind, it will stay powered and give more lift for footswitch. Make sure you sheet way way out and crank the bar hard. You probably think you’re turning the bar enough but normal muscle memory will have you sheet in a bit to get that bar pressure and feeling of authority which is probably sheeting too much and I bet you can just turn it more sheeted out. take a look and see.

I can get nice lifty tacks on 4m kite on race foil by doing the above, sending the kite late makes it zoom across the window with good apparent wind and provides the lift.

On big slow 11-18m kites even a bit too much sheeting in will stall then up top but if you really sheet out and crank the bar, you maintain all this power and can ride straight out on reach without pointing down wind at all.

thanks a lot, this certainly helps, do you ever downloop your kite during the duck tack?
what confuses me is at what point do i try to switch my feet? before the downloop or while the kite is looping?

If i try it before the loop i find that i lack the lift from the kite to get me weightless so i touch down.
Switching during the loop when i get the lift seems way to difficult to time.

Jyoder
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Re: tacking with long lines

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:19 pm

thanks a lot, this certainly helps, do you ever downloop your kite during the duck tack?
what confuses me is at what point do i try to switch my feet? before the downloop or while the kite is looping?

If i try it before the loop i find that i lack the lift from the kite to get me weightless so i touch down.
Switching during the loop when i get the lift seems way to difficult to time.
If I miss my timing, am underpowered, or the wind lulls, I sometimes loop the kite at the end of the tack to get a little extra power but I always feel like this is “cheating”.

You can switch feet at different times but I think easiest is when kite is passing through 12 o’clock. With practice you’ll need less and less lift from kite. It also helps if you enter tack with board low near the water and then pitch up and do a little mental hop as you switch feet with board high off the water, then you can use that mast height to dive a bit and ride out with more speed. This is the fine details though, after you get enough muscle memory that foot switch lands in right place automatically. It just takes many many tries and fails.
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