Pocket Board: How small is too small?

[dave1986]

I currently own a Groove Skate 130cm. I'm looking getting a smaller foilboard for use with travelling and general riding. I'm torn between a Groove Skate 110cm or a Groove Skate 100cm. The 100cm will of course be smaller for travelling, but also has a possibility of compromise in performance ?

I'm a 90kg intmediate/ advanced foiler (jumping & footswitching).

Can anyone help me with my decision about 100cm vs 110cm board? Will I find the 100cm annoying or problematic?

Thanks in advance
Dave

[Iridian]

I think we can get to the point where we have no boards at all.. Instead it's boots with J Foils on the bottom.

[Peter_Frank]

I think we can get to the point where we have no boards at all.. Instead it's boots with J Foils on the bottom.

It has been done, boots only no board

I think it is very difficult to answer your (the OP) question, as you can ride a board only 80 cm if you want to.

Some swear to boards 90-100 cm, others dislike if smaller than 115-125 cm, so personal choice also influences extremely.

At what point are there significant diminishing returns?

IMO around 110-115 cm, you can not have the nose rocker nomore, thus when going down on the surface or in whitewater, they suck, compared to the tad longer ones.
Or you have to stand with one leg bent more than the other.

On the other hand, if you are "above" the water mostly, and dont care if you might crash on touchdowns, or how easy the start is, you can go extremely short.

Peter

[grigorib]

210 lbs here. Dwarfcraft 100cm is my big lightwind board. 90cm woody is my regular pocket board. Looking to build smaller than the 90cm

I ride strapless and rarely touch water. If I do I usually ride it out.

130cm is monstrously big

[jumptheshark]

I know that you (Peter) are smore of a foil flight purist and touch down as little as possible. (?)

I touch down all the time. I break out my foil knowing full well I'm likely to touch down all the while trying not to, but touching down and riding away loads of the time anyway. I have an 81 cm mast and fairly low ride height.

108cm is my sweet spot with pretty subtle nose rocker. Recovers well from all kinds of splash downs and smears but is still short enough to be agile.

[tomtom]

Im 86 kg/200cm riding 88x38cm very narrow board. Width is also important. I found some 90cm really wide boards huge. In this perspective anything 100cm + centimeters is huge

So here are pluses and downsizes
Pluses
Very small baggage no extra cost to fly this also require less than 90 mast and less than 90cm wing span and board had to be very narrow about 90x38 cm - So basicaly anything above 90cm doesnt fit
Much less unwanted touchdowns - because there is so little board in way. I have more room on 82cm mast and this board than "normal" board and 92cm mast.
Very light about 1.2 kg. There is surprisingly little low end penalty. If i cannot start it means i also cannot ride /with big 1500 cm wing/ - ok i can but very very uncomfortable - basicaly i can start when i can ride.
Also i can touch down and ride it out - its not that you cannot. And in scale for my wide stance and 200cm height the board is like even smaller board for average guy.

Minuses
You must start direct to foil which is advanced especially on your weak side and especially if there is heavy chop. There is very little room on deck especialy with US 15 feets. So in jibes you have to be advanced and precise.
In this respect 90x45 is normal board without this issue


Anything above 100cm is normal board without any penalty just advantages. /i mean board like 100-110cm -these are new big boards/

These are just my personal opinions.

[Peter_Frank]

I know that you (Peter) are smore of a foil flight purist and touch down as little as possible. (?)

I touch down all the time. I break out my foil knowing full well I'm likely to touch down all the while trying not to, but touching down and riding away loads of the time anyway. I have an 81 cm mast and fairly low ride height.

108cm is my sweet spot with pretty subtle nose rocker. Recovers well from all kinds of splash downs and smears but is still short enough to be agile.

Ha haa, thanks but you give me way too much credit.

Yes I am a purist in terms of gear, I want exactly the right and best gear for my use.
And I "try" to touch down as little as possible, yes.

I could ride a full session without getting my hair wet, if I only carved around and jibed/switched feet and nothing but that - but that never happens, as when I do things I am not good at (most things), I crash - not sufficiently talented and good - and even if I were, I would try to learn new things I can not do yet.

Experienced though.

Love to ride with small kites (low powered) also, so this is why I personally dislike short and small boards.

Meaning I use around 115 cm when windy (12 knots and up), and 125-130 for less wind for my average weight.
Gives huge advantages regarding how early and easy I can start, especially in lulls or marginal wind.

Absolutely no disadvantages with these sizes for me.

In the most marginal winds, an even bigger board is an advantage.

On occasion in summerwinds when okay powered, I ride a sub 90 cm foilskimboard.
Just for the fun of doing it - as it makes absolutely no sense and only loads of disadvantages

I wouldnt write this in my first answer, as I know many has a different opinion, and important to know about others experiences and not your own.

Thinking about it, I wonder if there are local differences, as around here nobody rides supershort pocket boards, no matter which brand they use?
But here on the forum there seems to be quite a number of riders who would never ride longer than 110 cm boards, and often sub 1 meter.

Peter

[NNOwind]

my pocket board perfect for travel, 65x20cm

[Oldman_Dave]

My 3 boards from biggest to smallest: yellow 100cm CarbonCo Nang, white 94cm Axis Tray, red 78cm Home built (inspired by the awesome Fbf boards).

In my experience the 78cm is much more challenging than the others, and requires more power to lift straight onto foil every time.

From 90cm upwards it's just wasted space and there's really no point going over 100cm.

[Peter_Frank]

Have been wondering for quite some time now, about these huge discrepancies regarding when boards gets "too" small....

I think it is all about area (width) and volume, besides length.

Looking at the boards from Oldman_Dave they seem very wide and round edges so some thickness also?
Yours grigorib - difficult to see their thickness?

Mine are between 15 and 20 mm thick, and not too wide (will catch in chop and waves if wider), but the supershort pocketboards you have shown in photos looks like they pack some both area and volume?

If you ride in flat water or really small chop water, it is fine no need for more length.

But I have a hard time seeing how these short boards handle whitewater when not on foil?
I know when I make floater off the lips, I crash quite often, as the lift from the wing gets sucked out of the foil so you drop to the whitewater frenzy, and here having a nose on the board which is pointed up, makes a h... of a difference IMO.

Like last weekend - sometimes it works, other times you get tumbled, like this shot from last weekend:

It seems like it went okay on this picture, but a splitsecond later the wing got sucked down from the tumbling whitewater, and only chance to ride it out is to have some nose on the board, and some area too - so you can ride on the curling whitewater.
As said, sometimes possible to ride it out this way, and at other times you (I) get munched by the whitewater as it has a tight grip in your wing and mast and try to tilt you, so a lot more difficult than if it was a surfboard on the curl

Kite is partly drifting so nothing to support you...
Would be quite easy with straps yes, but without, not easy but fun to see how far you can go


In short: Some ride in flat water, where length is not as needed.
And when in flat water, but low winds or low powered, some short boards carry a lot of volume (thickness and width), thus corresponds to a longer board somewhat, just more compact (nice).
Finally, some ride with more power in their kites, or use kites with lots of peak powerspike - thus you can get up on foil immediately quite often, and here length/area is not important.


I think this is some of the reasons why we have so different views on this, apart from individual liking of course.

Peter