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New to foiling gear advise

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glfmkg
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New to foiling gear advise

Postby glfmkg » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:55 pm

Hello All,

I have been kiting for a while and I'm very confident rider including loops, jumps, etc on a twin tip. I decided to learn to foil this year. I got a good quiver of kites for foiling/surfing (3 Airrush Ultra kites 9-12-14) but wanted to ask you about a wing/mast/board that you can recommend to make the process of learning as easier as possible.

I'm planning on learning behind my boat first and once I feel confident flying the foil, going to take a few classes to get started with the kite.

I'm 100kg/220lb, 6"4 and normally kite in flat water during the summer and very consistent winds or choppy water in the winter in gusty winds. I also kite in cold water, so we wear a lot of gear! so maybe add a few kilos/pounds to my weight dressed. I live in the west coast of Canada, so some European brands may not be easily available here in Vancouver. The idea is to foil during sub 20knots winds for now - For reference I can easily get moving on a 14m kite with around 14knots of wind using my 165 Mako and using my 17m kite I can get moving in about 12knots using the same board.

Questions:

- Which wing/mast do you recommend? - remember the goal is to make the process the easiest - I will sell the gear once I'm a confident rider so I don't want to buy something that will make the process longer but it will be good for when I'm better.
- Which board do you recommend - Ideally a board that I can use strapless in the surf (yes I surf) so I don' have to take too many boards to the beach.

Thank you in advance,
G.

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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:18 pm

I wont give you any specific gear advice (you might get plenty here), but say that regarding the foil itself, you dont have to buy one to learn, and change later.

In the old days yes, there were beginner foils, big and draggy, and advanced ones, small and snappy :rollgrin:

Today the wings are big, and less draggy, turns on a dime, and most use these for "advanced" riding, that being freeride or freestyle or wavefun in everything from flat to ankle snappers to big waves.

Only if you want to go fast, its a different story, but when you also surf, I think you will enjoy the carvy surfy feel of a bigger foil.

Meaning 1200-1300/1400 cm2 in size not too high aspect (1000-1200 if you were average weight).

Of course you can also buy a used foil with the only purpose to learn, and then buy something lighter and less draggy later - eventhough size of the wing might be the same.

Major difference is the board - get a big one for starters, and sell it when downsizing, or use it for marginal winds later if a good board.

8) Peter

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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:16 pm

glfmkg wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:55 pm
Hello All,

I have been kiting for a while and I'm very confident rider including loops, jumps, etc on a twin tip. I decided to learn to foil this year. I got a good quiver of kites for foiling/surfing (3 Airrush Ultra kites 9-12-14) but wanted to ask you about a wing/mast/board that you can recommend to make the process of learning as easier as possible.

I'm planning on learning behind my boat first and once I feel confident flying the foil, going to take a few classes to get started with the kite.

I'm 100kg/220lb, 6"4 and normally kite in flat water during the summer and very consistent winds or choppy water in the winter in gusty winds. I also kite in cold water, so we wear a lot of gear! so maybe add a few kilos/pounds to my weight dressed. I live in the west coast of Canada, so some European brands may not be easily available here in Vancouver. The idea is to foil during sub 20knots winds for now - For reference I can easily get moving on a 14m kite with around 14knots of wind using my 165 Mako and using my 17m kite I can get moving in about 12knots using the same board.

Questions:

- Which wing/mast do you recommend? - remember the goal is to make the process the easiest - I will sell the gear once I'm a confident rider so I don't want to buy something that will make the process longer but it will be good for when I'm better.
- Which board do you recommend - Ideally a board that I can use strapless in the surf (yes I surf) so I don' have to take too many boards to the beach.

Thank you in advance,
G.
At 100kg plus gear...

Axis 19mm mast; tough, stiff, you won't break it. You'll have to stay in the Axis universe though.
A board about 120cm long, I'd go for a Slingshot Dwarfcraft. I like the shape :lol:
Wing... maybe the Axis 810 BSC. https://axisfoils.com/products/bsc-810- ... ofoil-wing
Rear wing, 440 or 400 if you're bold.

You can of course upgrade all the Axis stuff, or go for a different style of wing once you've decided what your style is. I've still got my first favorite wing in case I ding something and need a backup. No problem selling Axis gear, it's popular. For more on Axis get on the Facebook group.

I know that sounds like an ad, but I've used and seen a bunch of different brands and it's simply the toughest gear for big boys IMO.

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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby rnelias » Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:16 pm

foilboards for learning are basically boards with reasonable volume and good fluctuation, bigger wings with lower AR (1000-1400cm^2) and smaller masts (70cm but I think it's not essential), however, after learning, you'll quickly want to change your gear for something more compact and versatile. Hydrofoil is like twintip and have different disciplines. After your first flies, you'll start to build a preference for racing, freeride, jump, surf, etc... the beauty is that, after learning with a wing, you can try any wing that your brain will re-adapt in a matter of seconds.

As @Peter_frank mentioned, today, we have gear that can easily suit the learning to intermediate rider's range. After my first "flies", I've quickly changed to an F-One IC6 850 wing with 95cm mast and, although I've been using a pocker board (120cm), I'd say that it would not be that hard to learn on this wing. It's very stable at low speed -- which is desirable in the learning stages -- but can accelerate and carve very well. In a bigger board, anyone could learn on this wing. It's not expensive (in fact, it's not that modern too... IC6 is from late 2018)

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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby FLandOBX » Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:30 pm

Good beginner's packages can include elements that you can continue to use as an experienced hydrofoiler. To learn as painlessly as possible, include a larger board (especially at your height and weight - 150+/- cm) with a good nose rocker and volume to counteract nosedives on the invevitable touchdowns (make sure your board includes sliding tracks to adjust mast position), a short mast (60 cm to start; then 70-75 cm, then 90 cm), and a 1200-1300+ front foil wing. You'll graduate to smaller boards and longer masts, so invest less money in those elements to start (e.g., buy an aluminum mast, not carbon, for your first (short) mast). You'll continue to use the front foil wing as you progress, but you'll probable accumulate some other wings for varying conditions and purposes. You may also keep the shorter masts for boat, surf or shallow water use.

You mentioned starting behind a boat and then getting lessons. Neither are necessary, but certainly are viable options. The boat training may help, but lessons aren't necessary if you are an experienced kiter. Watch tons of videos online (this is recommended before you buy gear). You'll be fine. Before you know it, you'll be hydrofoiling more than you ever expected.

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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby nixmatters » Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:01 pm

glfmkg wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:55 pm
Hello All,

I have been kiting for a while and I'm very confident rider including loops, jumps, etc on a twin tip. I decided to learn to foil this year. I got a good quiver of kites for foiling/surfing (3 Airrush Ultra kites 9-12-14) but wanted to ask you about a wing/mast/board that you can recommend to make the process of learning as easier as possible.

I'm planning on learning behind my boat first and once I feel confident flying the foil, going to take a few classes to get started with the kite.

...

- Which board do you recommend - Ideally a board that I can use strapless in the surf (yes I surf) so I don' have to take too many boards to the beach.

Thank you in advance,
G.
On these 2 points I'd definitely recommend a hybrid wave/foil board. Also when you start kite foiling a volume board will make a difference for a bigger bloke like you.

Your choices in alphabetical order are:
Cabrinha X:Breed Foil (90mm tracks)
Duotone Hybrid (fixed foil mount)
Fone Bamboo Slice Foil (90mm tracks)
North Chase (2020 only, fixed foil mount)
Slingshot Converter (90mm tracks)

Since you own a boat, another hybrid option is a directional wakefoil board - Slingshot WF2 (tends to snap under heavy load) and Liquid Force POD Foil.

The foil options are endless. Better narrow down to few models available locally, deals, 2nd hand and ask again.
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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby bkkite » Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:34 pm

I'm 215lbs, and just went through a long and painful learning process :)

I used the Slingshot Hover glide system, and moved up the mast lengths and found that helpful. I really only rode the short mast for 3-4 sessions before moving up, once you're feeling good with the balance, you'll appreciate the extra height / clearance because its more forgiving for trying to turn (the falls hurt more).

I started with a bunch of different random foils, and then I used the Slingshot Hover Glide with the space skate wing, and that was noticeably easier. Then on an impulse buy I went and got the Infinity 76 ( a higher aspect ratio larger surface area wing), and it was like hitting easy mode. For $400 it was the thing that sped up my learning on foil the most.

Outside of that I used a Nobile Infinity split foi. Its on the larger side, so it had the surface area to make water starts easier, and reasonably recover if i accidentally came off foil. I never loved the weight... after a few long walks done the beach when the wind died... the big wing and the big board where a pain, but they both helped me learn faster in the water.

Here's a video i made on the big wing


Here's some videos on my experience learning to foil in general

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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby airsail » Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:12 am

I learned foiling with a kite, then had a try behind a boat, found it much harder. Lots of load on the arms to get up, then no control of the power/throttle. The boat pulls you horizontally, doesn’t help you get up, the kite lifts you, making it easier to get up.
Oh, and try not to use a big wing to initially learn, you will rodeo badly. Use a smaller wing initially, one that won’t rear out of the water. Keep the big wing for learning to gybe.

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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby Trent hink » Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:41 am

Is the slingshot 76 the same wing as the sabfoil/Moses 633?

Even at 100 kg, either of those seem like a good way to start, though at that weight there is a chance you might want to go a bit larger if your intention is light only wind riding.

But, the way everyone starts hydrofoiling is “only for light wind,” and then the next thing you know, that’s all you want to do unless the wind is totally cranking.

I agree that if you are moderately adequate with your kite skills, it’s way easier with a kite than trying to learn behind a boat…. Don’t try to learn in light wind. Pick a nice day with good wind and rig a smaller kite.

In my experience, just barely not quite enough power to get upwind on good light wind twintip or good wide surfboard is a good starting point.

You don’t need much power, especially with experience, but for learning you will want enough wind that the kite is easy to fly and easy to relaunch when you crash it.
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Re: New to foiling gear advise

Postby bkkite » Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:00 pm

Trent hink wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:41 am
Is the slingshot 76 the same wing as the sabfoil/Moses 633?

Even at 100 kg, either of those seem like a good way to start, though at that weight there is a chance you might want to go a bit larger if your intention is light only wind riding.

But, the way everyone starts hydrofoiling is “only for light wind,” and then the next thing you know, that’s all you want to do unless the wind is totally cranking.

I agree that if you are moderately adequate with your kite skills, it’s way easier with a kite than trying to learn behind a boat…. Don’t try to learn in light wind. Pick a nice day with good wind and rig a smaller kite.

In my experience, just barely not quite enough power to get upwind on good light wind twintip or good wide surfboard is a good starting point.

You don’t need much power, especially with experience, but for learning you will want enough wind that the kite is easy to fly and easy to relaunch when you crash it.
The Infinity 76 is a bigger wing and I believe higher aspect ratio. I learned to ride strapless, so I didn't have any issues with tuning the board and the foostraps to get it all the work correctly, I could just move my foot forward more to offset the lift.

The Moses 633 I believe was made slightly smaller and turned into the Apollo 60 wing from slingshot. This one is faster and has less lift than the Infinity 76. I think its the perfect progression wing for a heavier rider (probably 190lbs and up), learn on the Infinity 76 and the progress into the Apollo 60.

I did boat / jet ski sessions on no wind days, and it helped me get my balance on the board dialed in without having to also manage the kite. My brain had a hard time doing too many things at once, so this simplified it. Agreed on the don't learn in light wind, and I'd say especially dot try in light wind if you dont have a good light wind kite. I had Core XRs which fall out of the sky on those lighter days.


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