strapless boards are too flat

[Jyoder]

When I started hydrofoiling I used a flat DIY plank board, trying to emulate what I saw in early BRM cloud videos. My friend had a repurposed banana shaped wake skate as a board. His board felt very strange to ride with front foot high, and I didn’t like it.

I’ve since changed my mind.

Most strapless hydrofoil boards are too flat.

Having the front foot elevated gives much more control as you have more angled surface and friction to push your foot against, especially when pointing down a steep wave face where pitch control becomes difficult on flat board due to the angle.
A strapless board with aggressive rocker or nose kick is much better for control during extreme maneuvers and high speed.

The downside is you need more power to start and the board tends to skip very aggressively off the water when touching down at high speed.

I ride a DIY carbon strapless 110cm x 35cm pocket board with aggressive rocker, with Sabfoil 637/420/111cm mast race foil in everything- flat water to waves.

We all tend to think that whatever equipment we are accustomed to is the objective best, but I will die on this hill.

[tkaraszewski]

You can have a flat board with an elevated front foot, you just change the angle at which it attaches to the foil mast. Race boards are built like this - pretty flat decks, but angled up (the bottom does curve from flat through the tuttle box to meet the angled-up deck. Example: http://www.mikeslab.com/143x43x32l/

[Jyoder]

You can have a flat board with an elevated front foot, you just change the angle at which it attaches to the foil mast. Race boards are built like this - pretty flat decks, but angled up (the bottom does curve from flat through the tuttle box to meet the angled-up deck. Example: http://www.mikeslab.com/143x43x32l/

Yes, I guess my statement is too simplified and what I mean is front foot vs back foot height relative to the plane of the foil.

[Peter_Frank]

You can have a flat board with an elevated front foot, you just change the angle at which it attaches to the foil mast. Race boards are built like this - pretty flat decks, but angled up (the bottom does curve from flat through the tuttle box to meet the angled-up deck. Example: http://www.mikeslab.com/143x43x32l/

No, he does NOT want the front foot elevated - that is the problem on all flat boards, or banana boards - same problem if they are set up for easy touchdowns.

I understand you fully Jyoder, it has been my point for years, having all types of boards - but I was apparently alone, as most want supershort boards instead, and they have to be quite flat for a comfortable stance.

There are a number of threads about this, I can find them if you want?

Anyways, my 118 cm pocket board has both feet in same height when riding, and as you can see, the nose scoop (nose rocker is what some call it) is quite extreme.
The board is not in the horizontal riding position here, but angled up because it stands on the carbon fairing, look away from that

The whole idea is, your feet has to stand on an almost flat plate, and the part of the nose in front of your foot, need to be curved aggressively up.

Pocket118.jpg (126.9 KiB) Viewed 2584 times

They also make a 107 cm with same nose.
And the classic Groove board was almost a copy of the one above, in terms of rockerline, just a wider tail

Peter

[Jyoder]

You can have a flat board with an elevated front foot, you just change the angle at which it attaches to the foil mast. Race boards are built like this - pretty flat decks, but angled up (the bottom does curve from flat through the tuttle box to meet the angled-up deck. Example: http://www.mikeslab.com/143x43x32l/

No, he does NOT want the front foot elevated - that is the problem on all flat boards, or banana boards - same problem if they are set up for easy touchdowns.

I understand you fully Jyoder, it has been my point for years, having all types of boards - but I was apparently alone, as most want supershort boards instead, and they have to be quite flat for a comfortable stance.

No, I DO want the front foot elevated. That’s the whole point. It makes a big difference when riding up and down a steep wave slope as you have don’t have to extend the front leg as much to maintain your center of mass and therefore are more even on your legs when board is pointed down sharply. At least, that’s maybe the reason. I don’t really know why, but it just works much better once accustomed to it.

[Peter_Frank]

Sorry then, bugger, I misunderstood.
I hate riding with the front foot bent all the time like you want.

So now I don't understand why you don't use a flat board angled up?
Or a rockered one angled up.

The ones I hate that is, but you want front foot bent, so you can easier push the nose down when entering a wave as I understand.

Each to their own, cool.
But I can not see why you should have more control with front foot bent, as in 360s or tacks you push with your rear foot not the front?

Peter

[jakemoore]

Yes the dramatic front scoop is a big improvement. Kanaha Shapes is another that had a bit of scoop but the bottom is a little more flat across the beam.

The board angle of attack also matters a lot but I don’t think the issue is foot elevation so much as the board working in concert with the foil. If the angle of attack is too low take off is poor and the board is likely to pearl in a touch down. If the angle too high a touchdown rotates the foil nose down and is also leads to falls.

The Ketos pocket board shapes really are at the top and I think part of it is the well thought out shape and part is having the board and foil working together.

[Jyoder]

Reviving this thread because it’s worth reviewing.

Benefits of angled or high rocket pocket boards:
1. Better touch downs without pearling.
2. More front foot control, more grip and friction between foot and slightly angled surface than horizontal surface.
3. Better traction means more control at high speed and low speed when whipping the foil around or very high acceleration when looping kite after pivot turn, etc.

Light gusty/Lully wind river session on 6m Soul, Moses comet 637/420 foil.

You can see my front leg is straight or bent as needed, but not unbalanced just because the front is high. Being strapless, it just means your foot placement is a few cm different.

[tomtom]

How big is your board?

I completely agree with you. Im making all types of strapless boards Surfskate, surfboard, Foilboard, snowsurf and this is type of interface I aim for. You need to be spread on board not just standing.

[Jyoder]

How big is your board?

I completely agree with you. Im making all types of strapless boards Surfskate, surfboard, Foilboard, snowsurf and this is type of interface I aim for. You need to be spread on board not just standing.

The board length is about 105cm/41inches.