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hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

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martrench
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby martrench » Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:55 pm

I think for me getting on my wing board (89L) with my kite will be tough. Using shorts harness with spreader line (no hook to damage board).

Any suggestions?

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby drsurf » Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:12 am

bitxopalo wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:03 am
cor wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:51 pm
...... A foilboard with 30-40l does this job as well. You don´t need a sluggish 70l board for that. I personally prefer something fast, agile and fun, also in light winds. Also, with a 14m2 single skin, a 900cm2 wing is enough to get you going in 3-4 knots if you know what you are doing.
I will try to answer... I also prefer a small and light board, and use one where I can.

But swimming back to shore (let say 500m with a 30L board takes four times than with a 80L board for me (65KG+big kite packed). I have done both a lot, with a small board means end of session, bad mood.... tired etc...
If you're trying to avoid the time it takes to swim back to shore, instead of going for a big board which will compromise the fun of kitefoiling, pack a lightweight pair of swim fins in a backpack. You'll be able to quickly and easily swim to shore if required with a small board.

If you're using a good single skin kite like a Peak you should be able to keep the kite flying and out of the water enabling you to drag back to shore. Also if you have a kitefoil board of reasonable size which is thin/low volume, it will give you a lot more resistance in the water against the pull of the kite which can be the secret to getting back up foiling when there's just enough wind.
A high volume board like a wingfoil board will float high and offer less resistance to the pull of the kite stealing a couple of knots from the wind strength as it too easily drifts downwind.

Having tried higher volume boards myself I find it hard to see any advantage in their use in nearly all situations.
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bitxopalo
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby bitxopalo » Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:54 am

drsurf wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:12 am

If you're trying to avoid the time it takes to swim back to shore, instead of going for a big board which will compromise the fun of kitefoiling, pack a lightweight pair of swim fins in a backpack. You'll be able to quickly and easily swim to shore if required with a small board.

If you're using a good single skin kite like a Peak you should be able to keep the kite flying and out of the water enabling you to drag back to shore. Also if you have a kitefoil board of reasonable size which is thin/low volume, it will give you a lot more resistance in the water against the pull of the kite which can be the secret to getting back up foiling when there's just enough wind.
A high volume board like a wingfoil board will float high and offer less resistance to the pull of the kite stealing a couple of knots from the wind strength as it too easily drifts downwind.

Having tried higher volume boards myself I find it hard to see any advantage in their use in nearly all situations.
Using swim fins seems a good idea, I will try with my 120cm board :thumb:

Agree with the slippeery feeling of a big board that could not create enough resistance, but I use my body as an anchor when have to fight against very light wind. (previously board leashed)

If you are used to steady winds, maybe dont believe that a single skin could fall from the air. But here in a lake between mountains wind changes from 10 to 0 knot in seconds... Kiting in light winds means late or soon natakite.
I use peaks a lot, and had the 11... And many times it finished in the water.
But sold the P4 11, and got the Pulsion 12 wich stays better in the air and has better range now.

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:23 am

bitxopalo wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:54 am
If you are used to steady winds, maybe dont believe that a single skin could fall from the air. But here in a lake between mountains wind changes from 10 to 0 knot in seconds... Kiting in light winds means late or soon natakite.
I use peaks a lot, and had the 11... And many times it finished in the water.
But sold the P4 11, and got the Pulsion 12 wich stays better in the air and has better range now.
I fully agree with this ; in some configurations, and incase of 0 knots during a pair of seconds, keeping a Pulsion (or Falcon I suppose, FRS to be confirmed) in the air is easier than a peak thanks to its rigidity and shape keeping while no wind;
Hysper2 is an excellent candidate as well, because closed leading edge gives a bit more structure vs peak , and keep the lightness of a single skin. IMO an excellent (if not the perfect) choice of kitebigfoil.

Agree also on the volume of the board degrading the classic waterstart with board on the side ; in the opposite , a very very large volume like 100 liters allows you to avoid any waterstart by climbing on the floaty board and then just increase slowly your speed with the kite (no peak power needed to elevate your ass from the water); my 70 liter board is not a good choice: in between these two options, so both are unefficient.... will try with 110 liters (old recycled windsurfing board)

Peaks or Hysper have (far) less peak power (loop, send the kite) than double skins, but it is less important if no waterstart, right ?

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby Tone » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:25 pm

I reckon the biggest Peak (13m?) and a really large prone foil or pumping foil, I reckon could be the ultimate low wind combo.

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby bitxopalo » Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:44 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:23 am
Peaks or Hysper have (far) less peak power (loop, send the kite) than double skins, but it is less important if no waterstart, right ?
Yes, seems right, the main cons of big singleskins is solved if you can stand up on your board.
I still have to master wingmode waterstart.with a succes ratio of 1/5... Cannot give any advice :lol:.... but seems easier to stand up with the kite low and moving up. (I will try to do a video)

Dont know the Hysper, but would be a surprise that it beats your pulsion 18.

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:18 pm

bitxopalo wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:44 pm
Dont know the Hysper, but would be a surprise that it beats your pulsion 18.
Your Guess is correct ... For standard kitefoil board, 142 cm skim and 1200 cm 2, pulsion 18 has better low end.
With a stand-up waterstart mode on a very large and floating board on a 1700cm2 foil, i need better experience to better waterstart and judge. For now i ride in lower wind with the pulsion 18, significantly ... Both with 1200 cm2 or 1700 cm2

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun May 01, 2022 9:35 am

new test yesterday, with an original configuration : my large 1700 cm2 foil mounted on my mini- Ketos Pocket board Ketos 107 cm ...
Incredibler experience in 4-5-6 knots; impressed by the waterstart efficiency after some trainings; my foil has not the right mats and asks me to relocate my feet about 20 cm forefront ... son on this 107 cm board, strapless, I have put my front foot on the nose extremity of the board : you see nothing in front of your feet except the water, flight impression is even higher ...

I was doubtful about this combo but the result is very interesting and addictive; due to huge lift of the board and extreme reactivity and lightness of the board, you feel every little variation of portance on the water at each little wave ; impressive ...
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby bitxopalo » Sun May 01, 2022 11:18 am

Yeah! Strange machine
I suppouse you start flying inmediately. ... no taxi phase needed.
Hysper 14 or pulsion18?
:thumb:

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby lezo » Sun May 01, 2022 6:10 pm

For an ultimate hybrid lightwind experience, a couple of weeks ago I have mounted my high/mid-aspect 850cm2 kitefoil (a windfoil prototype that I use for wavefoilkiting) on my 80l light wingboard (a transformed North Race LTD kiteraceboard) and had a really fun session with a 8m Peak4 and sliding rope harness. Wind force was between 2kts and maybe 6-8kts in the gusts (see below). The Peak stayed glued in the sky even in the lightest lulls, as usual. I could start by lying on the board and piloting the kite with one hand. With a bit of speed I could stand up wing-style by getting first on the knees then in the straps that allowed efficient pumping, 100% success rate. Around 4-5 knots (estimation, hard to be sure) I was foiling and catching some swell. When the wind dropped again I was lying down and never feared not being able to return to the beach as I was able to go nicely upwind. The real fun part was when I did not stand up immediately in gusts and I started to foil lying on the board, superman style.

In response to some of the discussions above, I found that a large but light board is a nice solution, it allows wingstyle starts, allows to use a nicely maneuverable and rapid foil in very light conditions and in the worst case with absolutely no wind I can always paddle back quickly to the shore. Concerning the stability of Peaks in the lulls, I had before a 12m FRS UL and I think that my Peak4 8m stays much better in the air, is more fun and is the only kite that allows me to foilsurf in very light winds thanks to the incredible drift. Upgrading to a 8m Peak5 right now (and have almost all the sizes below).

Update: I have added the measurements of the LineUp wind station at the end of Flag Beach, a couple of hundred meters away from where I was out in the early afternoon.
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Last edited by lezo on Mon May 02, 2022 8:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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