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hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

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Regis-de-giens
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun May 01, 2022 10:16 pm

bitxopalo wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 11:18 am
Yeah! Strange machine
I suppouse you start flying inmediately. ... no taxi phase needed.
Hysper 14 or pulsion18?
:thumb:
pulsion 18. And Yes Indeed, i started and foiled up directly at 45 dégree, no taxi phase, bord Nevers flat on the water, the downwind rail of the board never touching the water :-). That is quite fun, and a bit similar to Twintype waterstarts, with rear foot pressure while resisting the kite loop. But then, one violent charge in front foot pressure as soon as you stand up...

This also makes me conclude that the impressive good result of my very small board in such low wind is highly due to the huge huge power of Pulsion 18m. I doubt I will be able to do the same with a smaller kite (in 4 knots) even with my hysper 14m...

So for lower wind objective, (say 3-4 knots tobtry to put figures), where only the hysper should stay in the air enough to get ashore, i will need my 110 litres floaty board to avoid the classic waterstart phase, but climb up on the bord at 0 speed, then benefit of a better glide at almost no speed to build step by step my speed and then foil-up.

Not sure how fun it will be or not, we'll see.

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby lezo » Mon May 02, 2022 7:28 am

To complete my post above, now updated with wind measurements, I think that for lightwind performance it's useful that my recycled North Race LTD was at the top of the evolution of racekiteboards about a decade ago, just before foiling took over. Highly optimized glide, great upwind capacity. Having a relatively small surface and thin profile foil with a Tuttle box also helps to have minimal resistance, useful to build up quickly speed to stand up and foil. The whole setup has the nice feeling of a purebred race animal with the right sound, if you have ridden light epoxy sandwich boards for windsurfing or racekiting you know what I'm talking about. I use it for winging and even tried for paddle-in surf foiling, I got up on the foil on my second trial. For winging with the 850cm2 foil I need 16-18kts with a 5m wing, actually searching for a high-aspect carbon 1000-1100cm2 Tuttlebox windfoil to lower this limit.

These boards can still be found costing nothing since racers don't use them any more, just saying.. Anyway, I'm happy to give a second life to a nice board.
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Regis-de-giens
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue May 03, 2022 7:57 am

New test yesterday, in marginal wind :
1700 cm2 on 110 liters board,.Hysper2 14m2, 4-5 knots. Ar the end the single skin UL was not flying in the air ...
I was able to ride, but taxi only, on the water, not foiling.

Nice experience to ride on the knees, total different way of riding. One challenge was to keep my 90 degree angle to the wind : like my old souvenirs of windsurfing, i had to constantly play with the position of the pull point (my harness) : rearward to get upwind, frontward to get downwind.

From the road along the spot:
Image

I was able to get up but had the impression to loose my "already-poor" speed when getting up. In those 4-5 knots, my speed was to low to foil-up (Say 5 knots max), so board was Always touching the water.

Tryed to loop, but wind was so light and myself so instable (board going downwind and killing kite force) that I failed to get real power of it...

I need to improve my balance in this configuration to stabilize and be able to do a better loop. I think it was to low to ride with the Pulsion, so result is not here yet but encouraging since I was able to ride slowly.

Other nice point : in 0-2 knots lulls, you can paddle with your free hand to help the glide and keep lines tensioned and kite in the air... Without this technic i think that I would have put the kite in the water

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby geron » Wed May 04, 2022 8:26 pm

bitxopalo wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:03 am
cor wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:51 pm
...... A foilboard with 30-40l does this job as well. You don´t need a sluggish 70l board for that. I personally prefer something fast, agile and fun, also in light winds. Also, with a 14m2 single skin, a 900cm2 wing is enough to get you going in 3-4 knots if you know what you are doing.
I will try to answer... I also prefer a small and light board, and use one where I can.

But swimming back to shore (let say 500m with a 30L board takes four times than with a 80L board for me (65KG+big kite packed). I have done both a lot, with a small board means end of session, bad mood.... tired etc...
I have a 13 liter board (1m x .45m x.03m) and would like to know if a 30 liter board would be much better to swim back? Also, are the fins to help your swim back; for the hands or for the feet?

Thanks.

My goal is to have the most versatile (minimal) setup for different conditions.
So far: Hysper 4,6,10 msquare and a medium aspect ratio (and size) foil (80cm wide and 1,100 cmscuare surface)... but the hyspers are not good for jumps. (and wonder, if I make this 30 liter and 75cm long board, will it help me swim back better?)

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby bitxopalo » Wed May 04, 2022 9:55 pm

geron wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 8:26 pm
I have a 13 liter board (1m x .45m x.03m) and would like to know if a 30 liter board would be much better to swim back? Also, are the fins to help your swim back; for the hands or for the feet?

Thanks.

My goal is to have the most versatile (minimal) setup for different conditions.
So far: Hysper 4,6,10m square and a medium aspect ratio (and size) foil (80cm wide and 1,100cm scuare surface)... but the hyspers are not good for jumps. (and wonder, if I make this 30 liter and 75cm long board, will it help me swim back better?)
Hi geron

I only had experience with my 30L and 70L boards. No experience packing kites on less volume board.

Normally if your boards volume is low, you lay the packed kite on the board and push the board while swimming. But if the boards volume is comparable with your weight you can swim on the board like a surfer.

So I would say it wont be any difference between a 13L and a 30L boards cos in both cases you must put your kite on the board and push it.

I am not a good swimmer, but have been surfing half life so know well how the volume makes paddling easier.
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby bragnouff » Wed May 04, 2022 10:53 pm

bitxopalo wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 9:55 pm

Normally if your boards volume is low, you lay the packed kite on the board and push the board while swimming. But if the boards volume is comparable with your weight you can swim on the board like a surfer.

So I would say it wont be any difference between a 13L and a 30L boards cos in both cases you must put your kite on the board and push it.

I am not a good swimmer, but have been surfing half life so know well how the volume makes paddling easier.
You don't have to have a 70L+ board to paddle it like a surfer. 30L already helps a lot compared to swimming and pushing your board. Typical 6ft shortboard is in the 20-35L range, and is arguably easier to paddle than just swimming, and you can rest more, as it floats you (at least it floats the leftover of your semi-immersed body). In your case though, if you're talking about 0.75m long board, that's not even the size of a bodyboard, so not too sure about the flow and hydrodynamics of paddling it while holding a packed kite under your chest! It will help you immensely for drifting back and to keep you afloat, but don't expect to be quickly and effortlessly back to shore on that.
A pair of fins will definitely improve your motion speed, and alternating between arms and legs movement can help for the duration of your ordeal. If you're chasing the light wind, with potential self rescue, keep a bit of length and volume. Ideally as much as you can, until it gets too much in the way of your riding.
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby bitxopalo » Wed May 04, 2022 11:40 pm

Maybe Im wrong, but IMO is painful to swim with a kite packed between you and 30L board.
The kite is underwater, I can not paddle correctly so in that case I push the board while swimming.

We are taking about lightwind, so the kite would not be small.
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Regis-de-giens
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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon May 09, 2022 8:35 am

The video of above trial in about 4 knots (able to ride but foil down only, taxi mode):

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby geron » Mon May 09, 2022 12:53 pm

bitxopalo wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 11:40 pm
Maybe Im wrong, but IMO is painful to swim with a kite packed between you and 30L board.
The kite is underwater, I can not paddle correctly so in that case I push the board while swimming.

We are taking about lightwind, so the kite would not be small.
I agree with bragnouff, it is preferable for me to paddle on top of the board (even with my 13 litter board) (than push the board and swim). I think that the extra 17 liters will also help. I am building this board and will report when I try it. Thanks

My kite is a 10 m Hysper so the size of it is not so bad.

Regis… that looks fun… challenging? But I am allergic to big boards

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Re: hybrid discipline: "Kite-Big-Foil" = wingfoil pulled by kite

Postby bitxopalo » Mon May 09, 2022 5:10 pm

Yes geron, maybe iam doing it wrong, of course if you feel comfortable is better on top of the board.

I do not feel comfortable at all, but my light wind kite is a 12m twinskin
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