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Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

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Regis-de-giens
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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed May 04, 2022 4:12 pm

I would add that compared to race kites, a medium ratio kite has a better fly and pull during all turning phase.
Race kite has more pull in straight line , Indeed, but its pull comes close to 0 when turning (loop or just working the kite to accelerate). And in m'y expérience it kills your acceleration (for exemple when you need to make several loops to foil up or if your lunes are too short.).

I speak from my light weight rider point of view.

Made some interesting comparing test between standard pulsion (15m and 18m) and "s" version (16m) which is bit closer to racekites : i could ride in lower wind with the lowest aspect ratio of the 2, also in steady winds. All same cloth , weight and Line length.

Same conclusions for pulsion 12m vs pulsion "S" 12m.

And same conclusion for pulsion 15m vs elf joker 15m.

PS: fully agree with Peter "judgment" of kite medium ratio models. Peter , you should try a pulsion 18 on 30 m lines one day if you can...
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Peter_Frank
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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu May 05, 2022 11:02 am

I think, but dont know for sure - there is a difference regarding your weight.

Meaning, if you are heavier, you need a kite with more powerspike to lift you up on foil.
Of course you need more power, thats a given, but my point is, the heavier you are, the higher AR your kite needs to be, for going as low as possible (for your weight)

So the lighter you are, the better you can use a "not racekitelike" but still medium to high AR superlight kite.

Whereas if you are heavy, it doesnt work, and you need even higher aspect kites, with their drawbacks in turning, to be able to foil.
I think the turning loss versus powerspike balance point moves a bit, depending on your weight.

Maybe because you need a tad more wind when heavier - and here higher aspect peak power kites works better?


PS: I use 30 meter lines on all kites above 10 m2, but not sure I want an 18 m2 kite, as even a 15 is waaaaay to slow turning for any fun, and I can ride with my 80 kg in 6 knots with an 11 m2 XT Falcon. Weighs 1480 g with bridles and mixer (new ones a bit heavier but not much).
Because it is so light and higher aspect it accelerates fine and starts extremely close to what my 15 m2 UL C.A.Pulsion does, just a lot faster and easier and more fun and hangs in even less wind.
First time I have had a kite which was FUN in 5-7 knots of wind, instead of a (light) slow dog needed to be able to ride in marginal winds.
So I might skip the lowest wind knot and say "too bad" - as around here it is possible to find this extra knot of wind just with a short drive, meaning you dont want slow kites nomore, so not Peaks nor big Pulsions for me - the first one does not have much lowend, the last one really slow (but not as slow as racekites).
Having said that, pushing the ultimate low end (on sunny days only) is fun - but when you have done this often, you might change aim slightly.

8) Peter

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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu May 05, 2022 11:28 am

yeah I understand your points ;

I have a special pleasure to "manage a 18m kite" and its huge pull (while I often have 5-7 knots on my spot ...) , but I also prefer play with 12m when wind is not that marginal

And on this one :
Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 11:02 am
Maybe because you need a tad more wind when heavier - and here higher aspect peak power kites works better?
Yes, it is the clue In my opinion; lighter rider low end corresponds to lighter winds with significant changes in kite behaviour and requirements.

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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby rquintella » Thu May 12, 2022 3:37 am

I have a 13m Mono, 1 strut kite. I feel that I should have bought the 11m.
It feels to me that 13m for a kite with 1 strut is too much. Too big of a kite for little structure. And if the wind picks up you get over powered quickly.
I bought a 9m wave kite and I almost retired my 1 strut. I can get going in almost the same conditions.

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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu May 12, 2022 5:26 am

rquintella wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 3:37 am
I have a 13m Mono, 1 strut kite. I feel that I should have bought the 11m.
It feels to me that 13m for a kite with 1 strut is too much. Too big of a kite for little structure. And if the wind picks up you get over powered quickly.
I bought a 9m wave kite and I almost retired my 1 strut. I can get going in almost the same conditions.

True, that is also the common approach, to avoid bigger than 11 m2 LEI for foiling (average weights at least) :D

8) Peter

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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby flaps1111 » Thu May 12, 2022 7:43 am

At 87 kg I use a 14 mts LEI where my 12 is light years away from giving me the thrust I need, I tested and owned everything race kites, Pulsion 15mts, BRMs. I have ridden LEIs with 18 and 21m race kites at the same time.... Sometimes I get the impression that people either don't really ride in 5-6-7 knots or they have never measured the wind in their life and claim to sail in 3-4 knots which is totally impossible.
The weapon to succeed in minimal wind and have fun without swimming with an 18m anchor is a combination of the right kite, lines, hydro and technique.
If the wind picks up and you kite is too big it's no longer lightwind.
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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby airsail » Thu May 12, 2022 8:08 am

Flaps1111, what’s your conclusion? I currently go for a 10 Soul if stupid light, but move to a 15 Sonic as wind increases. I find the 15 is too hard to manage and heavy in the really light stuff. Both on 20mtr lines.
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merl
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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby merl » Thu May 12, 2022 8:47 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 11:02 am
I think, but dont know for sure - there is a difference regarding your weight.

Meaning, if you are heavier, you need a kite with more powerspike to lift you up on foil.
At 90+kg I found Regis's description of the Pulsion power development to be spot on despite the difference in our weight. Talking about power spike is a bit one-dimensional - for me what matters is not just the height of the spike (which indeed needs to be enough to get you up on the board) but the area under the curve (as an engineer I am sure you understand what I mean). A race kite in my limited experience (I have a couple of older kites but don't use them much) has a big spike (a high peak of power in the dive) but it is too short when you are not moving, so requires a lot more skill to start. A pulsion seems to have an ideal power development through the loop - especially while the kite is climbing, and this is spread out nicely.

Where I feel my weight more is with 5m peak, where the power spike often does not seem high enough to get me up, whereas the double skin CA Wave has the opposite problem - a very short and strong power spike but short-lived. Both are manageable but require a bit more skill at the bottom end of their range.
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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby flaps1111 » Thu May 12, 2022 9:55 pm

airsail wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 8:08 am
Flaps1111, what’s your conclusion? I currently go for a 10 Soul if stupid light, but move to a 15 Sonic as wind increases. I find the 15 is too hard to manage and heavy in the really light stuff. Both on 20mtr lines.
My conclusion is that you have to find a front wing (big and if possible fast enough ) that suits your kite. The board I use is 110cm is counter intuitive but what you are doing is eliminating inertia and wind resistance which is a great help pumping in gybes
As I said I only fly LEIs, 30 race lines mts (or more). You can't use the same kite in 7 and 15 knots. If the wind gets over 11 knots I change kite. I know my spot and the type of wind. I guess 2 years sabbatical also helped.

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Re: Ultimate lightwind kite for foiling? UFO or Single Skin

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu May 12, 2022 11:07 pm

I do not get your point as well; so about the initial question, what is the best ultimate kite in your opinion for lightest winds? a LEI ?

PS: Indeed, most of us agree that measuring properly the real wind at kite elevation on the exact spot and moment where you ride is often hazardous below 6 knots, and can lead to biased analyses, and also subject to "personal optimisme" :wink: ; best is to get personal comparisons and feeling of kites by the same rider , (precizing skills and weight) rather than try to compare between several riders and spots , only based on announced wind values at such poor winds. Sometimes I was able to ride while my hand anemometer was not turning at all, while there was obviously more than 0 knots, this I know with no doubts :lol:
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