Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Moses Comet foil placement on board

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
User avatar
Schietwedder
Medium Poster
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:35 pm
Local Beach: Surendorf, Kiel, Germany
Gear: Diy Gear
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Moses Comet foil placement on board

Postby Schietwedder » Wed May 11, 2022 9:51 am

I have a question towards mast placement on a race oriented foilboard.

Currently I run moses 633/483 on a self built 100cm pocket board.
Usually especially going fast I ride both feet in front of mast, mast is all the way back on the board.
I know this is a common thing with the 633/483 as it has so much lift going fast.

Looking towards more race oriented foils like the comet or w550 i want to build a new board because this foot position and quite narrow stance probably won't work with race foils+ a bit longer board is quite nice. (140 ish)

Now looking at old race/freerace boards from 2017-19 you often see the board extending 20-25cm behind the mast. Do you really ride with the foot way behind the mast with a racefoil in any circumstance, or was this a trend with a different fuselage style or anything you don't ride anymore?

Is this trend gone and is it enough to place the inserts or tracks such that i can have my back footstrap on top or near the trailing edge of the mast? I don't see this on current boards anymore extending significantly behind the mast, riders ride maybe 5cm behind mast with the foot on most videos/pictures I looked at.

Best Regards
Niklas

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 12709
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 993 times
Been thanked: 1177 times

Re: Moses Comet foil placement on board

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 11, 2022 10:43 am

Over 4 year old thread, I know, but might give some idea?
Show us your stance !


Since then, many have moved even further back on the board, as there is a tendency towards smaller stabilizers for more agility.
And having a smaller stab, you have to stand a tad further rear for balance.

A newer short thread: Backfoot moving back as I progress- why?


For racefoils you typically have a wider stance - not needed for balance but better for powered fast riding and control.
Trim is also aimed for more neutral, meaning not changing when speed changes, whereas some big freeride/surf foils have a tendency to more front foot pressure needed at higher speed.
Others are more neutral - quite different amongst the models and brands and personal trim.

8) Peter

User avatar
Schietwedder
Medium Poster
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:35 pm
Local Beach: Surendorf, Kiel, Germany
Gear: Diy Gear
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: Moses Comet foil placement on board

Postby Schietwedder » Wed May 11, 2022 11:47 am

Hi Peter,
Thanks for linking the two threads, think I got to understand a bit more of the mechanics involved.

I like your explanation on the second thread, it´s pretty much where I´m at now with the surf foil riding but starting to ride the foilkite very agressive and well powered down low "race style" in the vey uper speed range of this foil so having the foot a bit more forward helps with control not breaching the foil accidentally.
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:34 am
I think it is the progression:

[...]

Most importantly, your body do not have full relaxed control till after a very long time, so having a tad more pressure on your rear foot would mostly lead to you touching down if you release this pressure, no big deal board just touching down instead of a big ventilation crash.

Above means the risk of popping the wing out of the water, leading to disaster, is huge if you were standing fully balanced right from the start when learning.
So standing a bit further forward, pushing a bit more with your rear foot, will work better when a beginner.


For the new board and racefoil, the foil will have its centre of lift probably further aft as well as lift being more balanced through the speed range if I understood correctly. Also with time I will put my backfoot more rearwards, be it due to experience or riding smaller/shimmed stabs.

So I think I´ll put in fixed inserts for the front straps, two possibilities for the rear straps (normal and wide stance) and just laminate some titantium or stainless steel 6mm flat bars (30mm x 350-400mm) instead of tracks for the mast placing, so I can just drill holes and cut threads where ever i want the mast to be. (It´s easier although sligthly heavier to integrate flat bars into the structure i have in mind than tracks or various inserts)

That way I can change my stance even riding strapped which might be required at some stage and move the foil forward and aft so I dont have to move the footstraps. Would then have the ability to place the foot on top of the mast or even 10cm behind the mast.
Sounds reasonable?

BR Niklas

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 12709
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 993 times
Been thanked: 1177 times

Re: Moses Comet foil placement on board

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 11, 2022 1:22 pm

Correct - and yes most racers I see (and myself freesurfing strapless, but thats just me others have a narrow stance) have the rear foot behind the mast, and not on top.

In general that is, as tilted/swept masts exists but not many nowadays.

8) Peter

Jyoder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:31 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Chesapeake Bay (Annapolis area)
Gear: Zeeko bullet Foil and DIY board
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Moses Comet foil placement on board

Postby Jyoder » Wed May 11, 2022 4:48 pm

On my strapless 110cm board and Moses comet 637/420 I can comfortably ride with narrow to long stance. It is nice to have 10-15cm of board behind the mast for race-stance, but when carving and doing maneuvers my back foot creeps up to be over the rear bolts or even front bolts when I want to stretch or rest my legs.

I use t-nut and thru-bolts in pillars of epoxy for mount. If I were to rebuild it with intention to use surf foil, I might add a second set of holes more rearward but works fine as is too. Occasionally, it’s nice to have rear foot behind mast on surf foil too.
Attachments
46C0EA26-7BFD-4DC5-A440-439D8A03058E.jpeg

User avatar
Schietwedder
Medium Poster
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:35 pm
Local Beach: Surendorf, Kiel, Germany
Gear: Diy Gear
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: Moses Comet foil placement on board

Postby Schietwedder » Thu May 12, 2022 11:30 am

Jyoder wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 4:48 pm
On my strapless 110cm board and Moses comet 637/420 I can comfortably ride with narrow to long stance. It is nice to have 10-15cm of board behind the mast for race-stance, but when carving and doing maneuvers my back foot creeps up to be over the rear bolts or even front bolts when I want to stretch or rest my legs.

I use t-nut and thru-bolts in pillars of epoxy for mount. If I were to rebuild it with intention to use surf foil, I might add a second set of holes more rearward but works fine as is too. Occasionally, it’s nice to have rear foot behind mast on surf foil too.
Thanks! Yes still figuring out the insert thing, never worked with foam all boards before were bent paulownia plates with glass/carbon on top.

Originally I planned wood deck with just foam fairing on the bottom, but then a friend had plenty of hardfoam, aviation grade, so I will go full foam now with two wooden stringers.

The foilmount is clear, but how would you reinforce places for footstraps, drill 20/30mm diameter holes, maybe also 20/30mm deep into the foam and fill them up with thickened structural epoxy, and use normal wood screws or how would you do it? Maybe rather with inserts/nuts as well or maybe even some wood plates that spread the load even more into the foam?


I like riding strapless more as well , but on some racing or jumping occasion i might want to put them on and then they should be able to take some beating.

Jyoder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:31 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Chesapeake Bay (Annapolis area)
Gear: Zeeko bullet Foil and DIY board
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Moses Comet foil placement on board

Postby Jyoder » Thu May 12, 2022 6:25 pm

Screws in brittle epoxy is a bad idea. I have used 2cm nylon slugs embedded in foam under the laminate before and that works well to screw into if you drill a pilot hole. If you shape them to a rounded bump or depression 1mm above or below the deck then you can find them again by the slight impression once covered in carbon. Just make sure the size of the nylon block matches the screw so you don’t poke too deep through it.

Lose the wooden stringers- too heavy. Wood is great for flexible boards but for foilboard you want it light and rigid which you get with thickness and carbon laminate.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests