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Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

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abel
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Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby abel » Mon May 23, 2022 7:09 pm

I'm wondering if the designers of the hydrofoils can trade off hydrodynamic effective sharpness vs safer blunted edges :roll:
Lately too many friends got injured, so I'm posting this to see if there are technical solutions rather than "being careful ".

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby jyka » Mon May 23, 2022 7:13 pm

Gong is advertising their foils safe. With no sharp edges.
I had RL-boards foil and its mast trailing edge was very sharp.. had to dull it down.
Moses foils wing trailing edges are also super sharp.
I bet 90% of kite foilers don't care about the last % of performance and would give it to safeness

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby watercamper » Mon May 23, 2022 7:15 pm

Maybe someone has a good link to a video on how to dull our edges!

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby lederhosen » Mon May 23, 2022 7:23 pm

Zeeko spitfire xlw is nice and safe because it does not have a stabiliser and does not jump out the water when you fall.

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby FLandOBX » Mon May 23, 2022 7:29 pm

My doctor just put me on a blood thinner, so I've been wondering about sharp things of all shapes and sizes. I like the aesthetics (and incremental performance advantages) of my sharp hydrofoil (Moses) wings, but now I'll probably choose dull and safer over sharp and pretty. :o

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby joekitetime » Mon May 23, 2022 8:00 pm

Currently I've been riding Mike's Lab foils which really aren't too sharp. Either are the fone foils. Rode Moses foils for awhile which I found to be extremely sharp.

Mike's foils are by far the absolute best I've ridden, so many around here also swear by them. And they are not sharp (they aren't dull either, but I don't consider them sharp).

I have 3 various scars on my face from foil blows.

But my conclusion is that foils don't have to be super sharp.

Aside note, some of my worst foil injuries came from slingshot foils. They are down right dull (at least the older stuff). Their blows / cuts were the result of their sheer weight rather than sharpness. Weight is a factor as well - if you get nailed be a heavy foil it will do damage as well.

But I agree that "duller" foils should be a part of reasonable design. Saves wings canopies as well.

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby Fatso » Mon May 23, 2022 9:23 pm

lederhosen wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 7:23 pm
Zeeko spitfire xlw is nice and safe because it does not have a stabiliser and does not jump out the water when you fall.
Do you have one? I'm always interested on how it feels v the newer models, it's just such a special design with a promise of a surf like feeling... Care to comment on it?

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby bragnouff » Tue May 24, 2022 12:13 am

There's also the fact that sharp and thin tends to go in pair with high AR and larger wingspan, which makes it even more likely to get in contact with your lower legs underwater.

I liked the GoFoil Kai for kiting, due to being compact and not sharp at all. And also overall light and bombproof. Its thick profile and drag were only getting noticeable when pushing it over 20kts, which is a non issue most of the time, for me at least, on a kite.
Same for the bigger IWA and Maliko which were very blunt and rounded foils that were great for beginner wingfoilers, and still great fun for intermediate+
I shiver when I see people with no experience in foiling whatsoever taking some large sharp ginzu knives out. Any contact with a body part or with a wing part instantly results in damage. It's absolutely unnecessary.

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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby bragnouff » Tue May 24, 2022 12:36 am

Fatso wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:23 pm
lederhosen wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 7:23 pm
Zeeko spitfire xlw is nice and safe because it does not have a stabiliser and does not jump out the water when you fall.
Do you have one? I'm always interested on how it feels v the newer models, it's just such a special design with a promise of a surf like feeling... Care to comment on it?
I did spend quite a few seasons on the SpitFire XLW and XXLW, and I still take them out sometimes, and they feel great once you've found your marks around them. They're probably a bit more demanding (than "conventional" foils) in terms of finding the right foot position for optimal performance. Once you've got that position dialed, straps are great, cause you don't want (or need) to move out of that sweet spot. There's a bit more feedback towards the back foot during the turns, which is quite a surfy feeling.
They don't jump out in your lines after a fall, which is nice in terms of safety, but that means that if you don't have a load on the back foot, the foil doesn't rise by itself. That behaviour makes it harder (than conventional foils) to do flying foot switches, and pumping them doesn't work as well, or at least would require a different technique.
With the wings cut out of solid G10, they're absolutely indestructible, but this comes at the expense of weight. And specially for the XXLW, that feels quite heavy under the board. I think that's one of the main thing that users complained about. Some foam cored wings and a carbon mast would greatly improve that design, but at the same time, I understand Nicolas focusing his R&D efforts on more conventional foils (and lots of other stuff), since that's what the bulk of the market wants.

If you get the chance to ride one, give it a bit of time to get the position and adjust muscle memory. XLW is a great foil for kiting.
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watercamper
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Re: Hydrofoil design - too sharp edges

Postby watercamper » Tue May 24, 2022 2:01 am

This is what I've been doing. It seems to work. I'd love to hear your comments.



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