Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

[drsurf]

I ride Moses/Sabfoils, have had the 633 and even with my 65kg never had the issues the OP had with "nose up" and other claimed issues. I think most of these issues could be caused by locating the mast too far forward and other issues are easily addressed with a shim.
The other issue the OP might be having is too much kite. I ride my foils with Flysurfer Peak kites which offer instant depower, great manoeuvrability and are very powerful for their size. They also have the best drift of any kite I've tried which is what makes them so much fun with a surf foil.

I now use a Sabfoil 679 (990sq cm) 478 stab and medium aspect and a W800 Sabfoil (840sq cm) 425 stab and high aspect. The medium aspect 679 is very forgiving, has good speed and is very manoeuvrable. It doesn't have a lot of glide but has a low stall speed. Great in small waves and all round freeride with Peak kites.
The high aspect W800 foil is fast and smooth, lots of glide and easy to pump compared to a medium aspect foil. However it's a lot stiffer to turn compared to a medium aspect foil, doesn't have the same manoeuvrability and stall speed is higher. I wouldn't want anything wider as a kite foil as I don't believe there is much to gain and a lot to lose.

I also use and sell the Triton mono foil which is a new experience again. Super manoeuvrable and relatively easy to learn if you can already kite foil.

Each type of foil has its good and bad points depending on what you are comparing it with, no one foil will do everything well. However with any foil make sure you set it up correctly. Make sure it's smooth, no chips and free from grease and oils. Get the position right on your board. Some older boards do not have a mast track that is far enough back on the board for some surf foils. And if the foil is still too lifty for you, shim it until you have the lift you want. Then get out and enjoy

[Turbaani]

I upgraded from 633 to w800, and I think 800 is better in every aspect. 633 started to have draggy feeling, 800 is abit more technical but the performance is on another level. No drag, can go fast, can surf very well. I am 78kg and it feels a bit big at times. You have more stones so it could be even better, but if 25kg is big difference to foil power, it might be smallish. Is the 671 basically same charasteristics just smaller then 800?

[kit3surfer]

Hello gang,

would any of you radicalized foilers have any recommendation to replace my current GONG setup?

I ride a 100cm carbon mast which is very rigid. My front is a Fluid L-S, a "highish" aspect front wing of 1100sq cm, and a small, 230 sq cm stabilizer (FLuid S 39cm).
Love the combo: it has tons of lift for my weight (107Kg), is very agile, great to recover stalls. It is super fun for me, period.
But: am beginning to be really fed up with GONG and their "never really available" policy...

I used to ride the 633 Moses, but don't like that kind of wings anymore. Hated the "tilted up" nose needed when riding slow, the bad stall behaviour, the lower light wind capabilities than my current setup, and to a point, the less more twitchy feeling and the huge lift at speed (with 483 stabilizer).

Would newer more high A/R wings that are still agile, but have different lift and stall characteristics.

Should I test the 699 Sabfoil with the Kraken? A friend swears by the 799 (for wing, I think?) for kiting (and he usually prefers smaller front wings, like the old 683/679), he goes fast and jumps with it.
I don't really like Sabfoil (elitist, here in Italy), but I reckon their production is nice, and very easy to acquire here.

Other brands you may recommend who have up to date (i.e. no "old style" like the 633, or the Curve line from GONG) foil lineups?

I am entrigued by the Takuma Kujira (perhaps to be combined with a Project Cedrus mast ) but never seen one in person.

Useage: just normal riding with continuous playing around with manouvers, and waves as soon as I spot one! no jumping.

Thanks!

P.S.
am even eyeing the Triton monofoil... but do not want to get back to a Alu mast, nor do I wish for a sub 95cm mast...

If you love the combo, why not keep it? Beside this my experiences with Gong availability are completely the opposite to yours: very friendly, helpful and alway available either per online chat or email. And I think they have by far the most wide range of any foil maker worldwide. Other brabds have also nice foil shapes but then often I would prefer the shape one size bigger, or one size thicker or, or...
And with Gong you have every shape in 10 sizes for a reasonably cheap price by the way.

[azoele]

Well, I'd say that 110Kg is a bit different to 65Kg, especially near stall speed
(and I say it without any intention of sound "acid" or snarky: I read your posts here, and on Seabreeze, and always enjoy them and find them super informative )

I can assure you, I have some videos, and they clearly show I was riding "nose up" at slow speed, and I always put the mast in the backmost position on the board.
It is just the nature of the beast when riding slowly with lots of weight, I suppose: it maintains lift by having lots of angle of attack, at the cost of drag.
Nothing wrong with it, I just like the Fluid L-s so much better.

Also, I always go out underpowered, i.e. 12 knots I try to be on my 6m Maverick v.2 (amazing kite), 9-13 I'll be on my 9m.
Had Peaks, found them too risky: I'd rather not risk drowining in waves because my kite does not relaunch... And no: no one will ever convince me they relaunch. They "happen" to relaunch, but it's russian roulette, so I leave them to much better kiters than I am!
(a friend abandoned at sea a 8m Peak and the bar after a crash for this reason, and I had many a swim-in, some over 1h long, and thank the higher powers I did not lose my board). But of course: to each his/her own!

Funnily, and in line with your comment: yes, I had a "crazy moment" yesterday, and I bought a T1 Monofoil!!! (and found you on the dealers' list: unfortunately, I live on the other side of the planet or I'd have given you a phone call!!! )
I ride strapless only, and do as many tacks and jibes as I can while looping the kite all the time for fun, so it seemed like the perfect wing for me.
Got their mast too, hope it's not too flexy/spongy (and already I hate it's only 85cm, I ride 100cm...).
If that shouldn't work, I have been told I can source a sabfoil mast (i.e. the 92 with the adapter, or the new Kraken), and ride with it.

Trusting Rob's advice, I had explored the F-One lineup and tried to contact the F-One guys for help on choosing a foil and on where to purchase, but zero answer swayed me towards something I could have quickly, and out of the ordinary

I ride Moses/Sabfoils, have had the 633 and even with my 65kg never had the issues the OP had with "nose up" and other claimed issues. I think most of these issues could be caused by locating the mast too far forward and other issues are easily addressed with a shim.
The other issue the OP might be having is too much kite. I ride my foils with Flysurfer Peak kites which offer instant depower, great manoeuvrability and are very powerful for their size. They also have the best drift of any kite I've tried which is what makes them so much fun with a surf foil.

I now use a Sabfoil 679 (990sq cm) 478 stab and medium aspect and a W800 Sabfoil (840sq cm) 425 stab and high aspect. The medium aspect 679 is very forgiving, has good speed and is very manoeuvrable. It doesn't have a lot of glide but has a low stall speed. Great in small waves and all round freeride with Peak kites.
The high aspect W800 foil is fast and smooth, lots of glide and easy to pump compared to a medium aspect foil. However it's a lot stiffer to turn compared to a medium aspect foil, doesn't have the same manoeuvrability and stall speed is higher. I wouldn't want anything wider as a kite foil as I don't believe there is much to gain and a lot to lose.

I also use and sell the Triton mono foil which is a new experience again. Super manoeuvrable and relatively easy to learn if you can already kite foil.

Each type of foil has its good and bad points depending on what you are comparing it with, no one foil will do everything well. However with any foil make sure you set it up correctly. Make sure it's smooth, no chips and free from grease and oils. Get the position right on your board. Some older boards do not have a mast track that is far enough back on the board for some surf foils. And if the foil is still too lifty for you, shim it until you have the lift you want. Then get out and enjoy

[azoele]

As said in the previous message: I went "nutcase mode", got fed up with investigating, and decided for the T 1 Monofoil, which, by an incredible stroke of luck (don't ask! ) I may receive tomorrow.

Super excited at the radical change... and still a bit baffled at having decided in 24h rather than the usual 24 months

Thank you all for you help!

[azoele]

If you love the combo, why not keep it? Beside this my experiences with Gong availability are completely the opposite to yours: very friendly, helpful and alway available either per online chat or email. And I think they have by far the most wide range of any foil maker worldwide. Other brabds have also nice foil shapes but then often I would prefer the shape one size bigger, or one size thicker or, or...
And with Gong you have every shape in 10 sizes for a reasonably cheap price by the way.

Sorry, missed the comment.

You are absolutely right: they try their best all the time, and the lineup is fantastic.
I purchased 5 carbon masts, 7 front wings, 8 stabilizers in 2 years and a half, plus lots of other stuff.

My point: due to my mistake I waited too long to preorder.
When I finally get to it (21 days before expected delivery to GONG), everything is sold out.
Next shipment? September 14.

Kiting is something I enjoy, a "game" if you wish: I (we all) already put up with enough stumbling blocks in normal life, I didn't feel like putting up with other 70 days of wait for something that should give me pleasure, not frustration.
My fault, yes. But my time and enjoyment are much more important than the money a (normal) foil costs at this time.
So, Triton it was.

GONG is exploding as a brand, I know, and I wish them all the best, as they are real innovators.
But I also know I am not the only one discouraged or fed up by the constant "out of stock".

But again: love the lineup, and love my v.2 carbon mast with the Fluid L-s and Fluid 40, it is just the best foil I've ever used for my needs

[joekitetime]

I rode and loved the Moses 633. Now I ride FONE and Mike's Lab. I have all the FONE foils except the escape which aren't available. Pretty much none of the fones will work for you in my opinion unless you want to surf. You are probably best off sticking with Moses in my opinion, they have a really good kite foil range.

Why would you say none of them would work?

For instance: I never loved the 633. With my weight, it requires flying with the nose of the board up at lower speeds or it will stall.
With the 483 stab is is very twitchy. It creates tons of front foot pressure at about 20 knots, which increases with speed. When it stalls, it's done, it sinks. Turns on a dime, ok.
My current setup foils much more effortlessly, same low end if not better even with less surface, stalls much more abruptly but responds to a bit of pumping and out you are again. Can be made to turn very tight too.

To me, the new slightly higher A/R foils are fantastic.
Sabfoil makes the 699 to replace the 633, with much higher A/R. According to their frontman (who interacts on our italian forum), there's apparently a lot to like about it.
I could source a Sabfoil "easily" living here, but... never liked being "another one of the pack"

The only reason I'd say Fone wouldn't work in this case is because, in my opinion and from my experience, having loved the Moses 633, I found the Fones to kite foil in a very similar fashion. So, if one doesn't like the type of ride from Moses 633 my guess is that they wouldn't like the ride of Fone mirages and especially the Phantoms. One may like the Escape line but I tried to buy them and Fone told me just a few days ago that the Escapes are not going to be available for quite some time. I hope that makes sense!

[Peter_Frank]

Hmmm, I thought you wanted a higher aspect wing with more glide?

And now you went the complete opposite direction?

I am confused now

Peter

[azoele]

Hmmm, I thought you wanted a higher aspect wing with more glide?

And now you went the complete opposite direction?

I am confused now

Peter

Well... I kind of see your point!

I was looking for something similar to what I had, with less drag.
The GONG is excellent, but the stabilizer+fuselage adds significant drag, which is apparently greatly reduced with the new PRO fuselage+ -H stabilizers. But that is unavailable to me for other months.

I realized looking for another similar foil was going to be a painful research, and probably a very expensive one without guarantee of "how much" improvement I'd see... so I thought: why not another challenge altogether?

The Triton seems made exactly for my kind of riding, so I took the plunge! (and it helped that it had been in my head for months now).

This is what me and my riding buddy call compulsing, i.e. the act of performing a compulsive (and usually daft) purchase act when in the spires of great kite-induced stress or frustration

Can't believe how excited I am at the idea of the monofoil!

[Flyboy]

Hmmm, I thought you wanted a higher aspect wing with more glide?

And now you went the complete opposite direction?

I am confused now

Peter

Well... I kind of see your point!

I was looking for something similar to what I had, with less drag.
The GONG is excellent, but the stabilizer+fuselage adds significant drag, which is apparently greatly reduced with the new PRO fuselage+ -H stabilizers. But that is unavailable to me for other months.

I realized looking for another similar foil was going to be a painful research, and probably a very expensive one without guarantee of "how much" improvement I'd see... so I thought: why not another challenge altogether?

The Triton seems made exactly for my kind of riding, so I took the plunge! (and it helped that it had been in my head for months now).

This is what me and my riding buddy call compulsing, i.e. the act of performing a compulsive (and usually daft) purchase act when in the spires of great kite-induced stress or frustration

Can't believe how excited I am at the idea of the monofoil!

So ... have you received the T1 yet? Had an opportunity to try it?

I am impressed with your dedication to trying multiple foils!

I have been exclusively on my Gong 85cm carbon mono bloc with Curve M wing & Fast stab for almost 2 years now. I'm tempted to get a Fluid front wing just to try it. As I am using Peaks and primarily interested in carving downwind in swell and riding waves, I'm not sure if a higher aspect, faster wing would really be my thing. If I got a Fluid, should it be the regular in M or L-S ... or the "T" in M-T? I'm around 80 - 82 kg and not really interested that much in speed & don't feel like I need more lift than the Curve M provides.

I also have a Triton, but have only been on it 3 times so far as I don't have a mast that fits it. The T1 is obviously a very turny, low aspect foil - it might fit the bit as a replacement for the Curve, leaving open the possibility of a higher aspect, faster Gong set up. However ... I do really appreciate the simplicity of a one foil quiver - I stick it in the back of my (small) car - assembled & ready to go. No second guessing required.