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Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

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azoele
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Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby azoele » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:17 am

Hello gang,

would any of you radicalized foilers have any recommendation to replace my current GONG setup? :D

I ride a 100cm carbon mast which is very rigid. My front is a Fluid L-S, a "highish" aspect front wing of 1100sq cm, and a small, 230 sq cm stabilizer (FLuid S 39cm).
Love the combo: it has tons of lift for my weight (107Kg), is very agile, great to recover stalls. It is super fun for me, period.
But: am beginning to be really fed up with GONG and their "never really available" policy...

I used to ride the 633 Moses, but don't like that kind of wings anymore. Hated the "tilted up" nose needed when riding slow, the bad stall behaviour, the lower light wind capabilities than my current setup, and to a point, the less more twitchy feeling and the huge lift at speed (with 483 stabilizer).

Would newer more high A/R wings that are still agile, but have different lift and stall characteristics.

Should I test the 699 Sabfoil with the Kraken? A friend swears by the 799 (for wing, I think?) for kiting (and he usually prefers smaller front wings, like the old 683/679), he goes fast and jumps with it.
I don't really like Sabfoil (elitist, here in Italy), but I reckon their production is nice, and very easy to acquire here.

Other brands you may recommend who have up to date (i.e. no "old style" like the 633, or the Curve line from GONG) foil lineups?

I am entrigued by the Takuma Kujira (perhaps to be combined with a Project Cedrus mast :thumb: ) but never seen one in person.

Useage: just normal riding with continuous playing around with manouvers, and waves as soon as I spot one! no jumping.

Thanks!

P.S.
am even eyeing the Triton monofoil... but do not want to get back to a Alu mast, nor do I wish for a sub 95cm mast...

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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby robclaisse » Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:40 pm

I ride F-one and they have a pretty expansive range of foils. (I'm an F-one Ambassador in the UK).

The Mirage is the standard kitefoil foil in 800 and 1000 sizes, it's what I ride and love it but possibly not the style you are looking for. It's not like the 633 (not a fan of that either) but a good balance of lift to kite power, straight line speed and stability but still manuverable.
But the Fluid LS seems to match pretty close to the Phantom 1080, same span, AR, surface area etc. I know a few people who ride those with a kite and if you like that more glide-y foiling feel then probably the one to go for. Works well riding with slightly less powered kites. People ride the 940 and 840 Phantom S's too - rode the 840 and that it has amazing glide and better overall speed.

https://www.f-one.world/product/phantom-carbon/

And full range of carbon masts, I ride the 105cm but there is a 95cm too.

Overall what I really love about my F-one foils is the weight - they are light. The way the front wing has half the fuselage integrated into it and therefore a full carbon fuselage means they save lots of weight in a super stiff light plane.

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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby joekitetime » Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:15 pm

I rode and loved the Moses 633. Now I ride FONE and Mike's Lab. I have all the FONE foils except the escape which aren't available. Pretty much none of the fones will work for you in my opinion unless you want to surf. You are probably best off sticking with Moses in my opinion, they have a really good kite foil range.

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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby kct » Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:28 am

I mostly prone foil but have been learning to kite foil. I've seen a kujira and wow are those sharp. I'd be so scared of it at high speed. People love them in the waves though, this guy is on one:

I can't really kite on my good prone setup: Axis 890 wing, 420 tail, "crazy short" fuse. Too much lift and not much pitch stability so I breach a lot. But it's good for pumping.

I've been kiting on a Cloud IX s24. It's slow and easy for me compared to the Axis.

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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby azoele » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:06 am

Thank you Rob, they look very nice indeed.

I could not find shops who carry them only online, though... the only ones I could find in the e-shops are bigger wings for Wingsurfing. Am in Italy: perhaps the brand does not have as much penetration here as in the UK?
I shall have to send a few emails for the 980/1080 and carbon masts then.

And thank you for recommending the Phantom 1080.
I really like my current setup (although I agree it is not the fastest due to drag; GONG has tried to solve it with new stabilizers presented in April... and that ought to be available in September :-? )


robclaisse wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:40 pm
I ride F-one and they have a pretty expansive range of foils. (I'm an F-one Ambassador in the UK).

The Mirage is the standard kitefoil foil in 800 and 1000 sizes, it's what I ride and love it but possibly not the style you are looking for. It's not like the 633 (not a fan of that either) but a good balance of lift to kite power, straight line speed and stability but still manuverable.
But the Fluid LS seems to match pretty close to the Phantom 1080, same span, AR, surface area etc. I know a few people who ride those with a kite and if you like that more glide-y foiling feel then probably the one to go for. Works well riding with slightly less powered kites. People ride the 940 and 840 Phantom S's too - rode the 840 and that it has amazing glide and better overall speed.

https://www.f-one.world/product/phantom-carbon/

And full range of carbon masts, I ride the 105cm but there is a 95cm too.

Overall what I really love about my F-one foils is the weight - they are light. The way the front wing has half the fuselage integrated into it and therefore a full carbon fuselage means they save lots of weight in a super stiff light plane.

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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby azoele » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:14 am

joekitetime wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:15 pm
I rode and loved the Moses 633. Now I ride FONE and Mike's Lab. I have all the FONE foils except the escape which aren't available. Pretty much none of the fones will work for you in my opinion unless you want to surf. You are probably best off sticking with Moses in my opinion, they have a really good kite foil range.
Why would you say none of them would work?

For instance: I never loved the 633. With my weight, it requires flying with the nose of the board up at lower speeds or it will stall.
With the 483 stab is is very twitchy. It creates tons of front foot pressure at about 20 knots, which increases with speed. When it stalls, it's done, it sinks. Turns on a dime, ok.
My current setup foils much more effortlessly, same low end if not better even with less surface, stalls much more abruptly but responds to a bit of pumping and out you are again. Can be made to turn very tight too.

To me, the new slightly higher A/R foils are fantastic.
Sabfoil makes the 699 to replace the 633, with much higher A/R. According to their frontman (who interacts on our italian forum), there's apparently a lot to like about it.
I could source a Sabfoil "easily" living here, but... never liked being "another one of the pack" :D
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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby azoele » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:16 am

kct wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:28 am
I mostly prone foil but have been learning to kite foil. I've seen a kujira and wow are those sharp. I'd be so scared of it at high speed.
Never seen one in person!

But they look great, and something I'd spend my money on easily just for the uniqueness :D

But they are super rare, here.
Could only find reviews on Seabreeze forum (the online watering pool of many a gentle aussie) and they seemed very excited about it, although for wingfoiling.

Thanks.

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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:35 pm

azoele wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:17 am
Hello gang,

would any of you radicalized foilers have any recommendation to replace my current GONG setup? :D

I ride a 100cm carbon mast which is very rigid. My front is a Fluid L-S, a "highish" aspect front wing of 1100sq cm, and a small, 230 sq cm stabilizer (FLuid S 39cm).
Love the combo: it has tons of lift for my weight (107Kg), is very agile, great to recover stalls. It is super fun for me, period.
But: am beginning to be really fed up with GONG and their "never really available" policy...

I used to ride the 633 Moses, but don't like that kind of wings anymore. Hated the "tilted up" nose needed when riding slow, the bad stall behaviour, the lower light wind capabilities than my current setup, and to a point, the less more twitchy feeling and the huge lift at speed (with 483 stabilizer).

Would newer more high A/R wings that are still agile, but have different lift and stall characteristics.

Should I test the 699 Sabfoil with the Kraken? A friend swears by the 799 (for wing, I think?) for kiting (and he usually prefers smaller front wings, like the old 683/679), he goes fast and jumps with it.
I don't really like Sabfoil (elitist, here in Italy), but I reckon their production is nice, and very easy to acquire here.

Other brands you may recommend who have up to date (i.e. no "old style" like the 633, or the Curve line from GONG) foil lineups?

I am entrigued by the Takuma Kujira (perhaps to be combined with a Project Cedrus mast :thumb: ) but never seen one in person.

Useage: just normal riding with continuous playing around with manouvers, and waves as soon as I spot one! no jumping.

Thanks!

P.S.
am even eyeing the Triton monofoil... but do not want to get back to a Alu mast, nor do I wish for a sub 95cm mast...

Interesting - so you are asking how higher aspect wings work for kitefoiling?

I both kite and wingfoil.
Find wings need to be totally different though.

The 633 types are my favorite, although brand is KETOS, no pitch up at higher speeds, so loving the KOOL1200 or the tad higher aspect Kloud (1000 cm2) for kitefoil - I find that a lot higher aspect wings, unless really small, turns lousy and not the same free lively feel, even when using a super small stab.
Whereas when wingfoiling, we NEED higher AR more efficient foilwings for glide, unfortunately, as they turn like shit...
Unless they are really small, and now it becomes tricky, as you need more speed/wind to be able to start.
Or you need to be so good that once up, you never drop but ride apparent wind all the time :rollgrin:
So it is a huge compromise for wingfoiling, using higher AR foilwings, as they turn really bad, but this is the price for glide and lowend also.

My point is, eventhough I love the higher AR foilwings for winging (and they are needed as glide is everything), I dont like them for kitefoil (typically using Peak kites) - and have no problems riding these two sports as totally different in every way.

It doesnt help you though, sorry, as you ask for higher AR foilwings - but would just chime in with my experiences.
And the fact that also Ketos went from their 1200 cm2 to a 1000 cm2 a bit higher AR, as their "main go to" foilwing now, for those wanting something "not as 633" like.

8) Peter

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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby rnelias » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:50 pm

robclaisse wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:40 pm
I ride F-one and they have a pretty expansive range of foils. (I'm an F-one Ambassador in the UK).
...

Overall what I really love about my F-one foils is the weight - they are light. The way the front wing has half the fuselage integrated into it and therefore a full carbon fuselage means they save lots of weight in a super stiff light plane.
Rob, a little off-topic but you could tell F-One folks to stop changing foils every year. This type of equipment is not cheap to change the whole set of wings, stabs and masts every time the brand decides to change the system. I've learned hydrofoil with a F-One board (and really liked it) but nothing on my board can be updated as nothing is compatible (in fact, I could keep just the board)
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Re: Current Kitefoil surf-type foils

Postby StellaBlu » Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:04 pm

azoele wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:16 am
kct wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:28 am
I mostly prone foil but have been learning to kite foil. I've seen a kujira and wow are those sharp. I'd be so scared of it at high speed.
Never seen one in person!

But they look great, and something I'd spend my money on easily just for the uniqueness :D

But they are super rare, here.
Could only find reviews on Seabreeze forum (the online watering pool of many a gentle aussie) and they seemed very excited about it, although for wingfoiling.

Thanks.
I wing on the Takuma Kujira foils (1095 and 1440 - both of which would be too spanny for kiting). These wings are notable for combining fantastic glide, while also being able to turn very well. I don't kite anymore, but I used to foil and the 750 or 980 could work for kiting. One thing to note about Takuma is that while their foils are some of the best around, their mast / fuse system is awful. Many people who ride Takuma hard are on Cedrus (which is what I use with a custom Stringy fuse), NoLimitz, or use an adapter for Axis.

The Cabrinha H650 could also work.


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