Foiling downwind at 10kts vs 13kts+

[Regis-de-giens]

my tips in very light wind is to "build your speed" by being very soft and progressive on your downwind angle increase:
first go cross wind as fast as possible , kite at about 45 degree , then go just a bit downwind by keeping this " initial" speed , and if you succeed in keeping your high speed, only then you can increase just a little bit your downwind angle and see if you can keep your high speed ; then increase your angle a bit, ect ...

My explanation is that apparent wind plays a high role to keep tension in kite lines during a downwind specially, so you need to focus first on your speed rather than pure angle; otherwise you will progressively reduce your speed if your angle changes too rapidly. (remember that changing direction toward more downwind translates your relative kite wind window a bit backward, so if your change is too rapid, the kite will "dye" at the extreme new wind window, without pull anymore , even if kite has not actually moved in front of you. By changing very softly, you keep the kite in the same position in its relative wind window, and almost same pull.

[Peter_Frank]

Very true - this also means, when looping the kite, you dont go downwind in a straight line, but you bear away more at some point of the loop, and head a bit higher at other points (and different according to which way you loop) - to keep line tension and more important, kite flying speed.

It comes naturally when you ride a lot, so you adjust your angle to fit the position and direction and speed of the kite

But initially it can be very difficult to master and understand why it behaves so "odd"

It will come in time, and you can master this later Indulang, just keep moving your boarders slowly.

Peter

[dave1986]

I agree that looping the kite is the best option to keep it flying in veey low winds if you have no board speed, but looping the kite is not the best idea to make the fastest downwind progress.

In the lightest of winds the ultimate most important thing, more than anything else is to maximise the speed you are riding. Looping of the kite will get you riding up on foil initially in low winds, but after you are riding up on foil it is best not to loop the kite. Much better than looping the kite is to ride fast and maintain that speed through correct angle of riding and correct sheeting of kite (not looping).
After all, when was the last time you saw hydrofoil racers looping their kites? (other than downloops for gybes).

Remember, the optimum VMG (velocity made good) for getting downwind as fast as possible is not directly downwind and not even close to this angle. Much faster downwind progress will be made by maintaining very fast riding speed, riding at a more modest downwind angle, and not looping kite.

[alekbelia]

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After all, when was the last time you saw hydrofoil racers looping their kites? (other than downloops for gybes).
...

Hey guys! We are not speaking about race or near to race equipment! With freeride tube kites and freeride foils (800-1200) looping is fastest way to go deep at all.
Not Ozone Edge or R1, not FS VMG(2), not even Sonic3 or comparable foils.

[dave1986]

Hey guys! We are not speaking about race or near to race equipment! With freeride tube kites and freeride foils (800-1200) looping is fastest way to go deep at all.
Not Ozone Edge or R1, not FS VMG(2), not even Sonic3 or comparable foils.

Are you aiming to ride at a deep downwind angle, or is the aim to get best VMG downwind? In my opinion the kite type is irrelevent. (race foil kite or freeride kite). Or in other words, the same strategy should be taken regardless of kite type.

If deep downwind angle is what you want to achieve then I agree looping kite is the best strategy (regardless of kite type).

If fastest VMG downwind is what you want to achieve then looping the kite is not the best strategy. The best is to ride fast at optimum angle downwind to achieve max VMG without looping the kite (regardless of kite type).

[Peter_Frank]

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After all, when was the last time you saw hydrofoil racers looping their kites? (other than downloops for gybes).
...

Hey guys! We are not speaking about race or near to race equipment! With freeride tube kites and freeride foils (800-1200) looping is fastest way to go deep at all.
Not Ozone Edge or R1, not FS VMG(2), not even Sonic3 or comparable foils.

I dont think this is correct

IMO you would still have the highest VMG downwind, without looping, even with big slow wings and small inefficient kites.

But I have no proof of this....

Peter

[dave1986]

IMO you would still have the highest VMG downwind, without looping, even with big slow wings and small inefficient kites.
Peter

You are 100% correct

[alekbelia]

But I have no proof of this....
Peter

Me and my friend proofed this in 2016-17. Kites RRD Religion 7 sqm vs Nord.. (green one). Foils Moses Komet vs Levitaz Bionic. Looping Religion was clearly winner with huge margin. Both in angle and speed and VMG.

[dave1986]

But I have no proof of this....
Peter

Me and my friend proofed this in 2016-17. Kites RRD Religion 7 sqm vs Nord.. (green one). Foils Moses Komet vs Levitaz Bionic. Looping Religion was clearly winner with huge margin. Both in angle and speed and VMG.

You reached a higher speed by looping the kite, compared with travelling on a broad reach? I find that hard to believe

[alekbelia]

You reached a higher speed by looping the kite, compared with travelling on a broad reach? I find that hard to believe

Track from today session. Specially made some straight downwinds with looping kite. Kite 4m single skin. Foil front wing 860 sqcm. Yellow lines - wind. Green lines - downwinds.
With me was friends with hydrofoils on Soul 7sqm and inflatable Duotone 9 sqm. On upwind course I was faster than Duotone. But downwind withouth loops was clearly impossible. I have video from my GoPro. Can make a short video for you.
download/file.php?mode=view&id=103316