Bye Soul, hi UFO or Alpha maybe?

[Nelis]

Hi All,

I've gotten frustrated with my beloved Soul 10m. Yes, it's a love-hate relationship. I love how it's rock stable at zenith in anything over 8kts and gets my foiling super reliable at 10kts. However now I find that as I start to try new stuff (tacking and hammering through the gybes harder) generally be less careful and more playful, as I start to do this and drop the kite the relaunch percentage is unacceptable. Mostly it drops because of lack of line tension, which causes it to go down in an odd position. I sail in a choppy place, so it needs to be back up within around 3 minutes otherwise I'm f*cked. After this many swims in, I'm kinda done with it.

I'll probably cry myself to sleep every night if I decide to sell it. As replacements I'm thinking either UFO V2 or Alpha V2 in 8m. I think those should get me foiling comfortably at 10 kts on a Levitaz Cruizer. I'm comfortable loop starting the Soul, as well as getting going with a 4m Peak4 on 12m lines in around 13kts, so I should be able to manage to get going on an 8 like that.

The goal should be to feel a bit more unlimited and able to experiment with new tricks without the fear of a big swim in at open sea. I kinda scared of the lack of upwind ability of both these kites but the UFO especially. I find the lack of upwind ability of a Peak4 seriously limiting for instance and am curious how these compare. Having used the Peak, I also know the importance of light weight on performance, so in that sense the choice should be UFO. On the other hand, the Soul did sometimes fulfill a duty as higher wind twintip machine, which the UFO definetely can not do. The Alpha V2 seems to be able to do a little double duty at least. The Alpha looks like a very well built kite, and the shape looks very slick and proportionate in the sky. Not sure of the weight penalty on the Alpha in comparision to the UFO though...

I remember from my early foiling days with Liquid Force Solos I dreaded the constant tipping over at the wind window at slight downwind angles, and having to correct them all the time. A foil kite does not do that, how are the Alpha and UFO in that regard?

Sorry for the long rambling. Looking for general advice, because I can't make up my mind.

Cheers, Nelis

[jakemoore]

I have not flown Alpha but would consider a one strut or light weight 3 strut for your desires. I have really liked Naish Boxers and Airish Ultras

The UFO is awesome downwind but less so upwind and less lift eg to help a tack. Similar feeling to the Peak but less extreme. I really liked the Peaks but have chosen UFO as a better alternative for me due to relaunch. Single skin tube kites are better in small sizes like the Peaks.

UFO a great kite but It will be a big change from the Soul if that’s what you are after.

12m tube kite to replace 10m Soul.

10 Soul and 6 7 or 8 UFO would be a solid quiver.

[Mikkelza]

Where do you live? I have a naish boxer 8m2 for sale. I haven't used it much, since I am always on peaks.
It could be a cheap way for you to try out a single strut kite.

The boxer really behave well. Easy to use, not much flutter. The loft strut works (it is not just marketing). Really a great, light kite.

[leeuwen]

I've gotten frustrated with my beloved Soul 10m. Yes, it's a love-hate relationship. I love how it's rock stable at zenith in anything over 8kts and gets my foiling super reliable at 10kts. However now I find that as I start to try new stuff (tacking and hammering through the gybes harder) generally be less careful and more playful, as I start to do this and drop the kite the relaunch percentage is unacceptable.

Just some general foil kite vs tube experience.
I personally find my 11m foil kite the easiest to learn new things on. Especially things that need lift like tacks are a LOT easier to learn compared to a tube kite. Also because foil kites are so slow you are less likely to end up with a kite in an unexpected position. Eg I had quite a few front stalls and crashes on my tubes when learning tacks but never had that issue with the foil kite, worst case it usually stayed parked around 12.

Of course a tube kite is faster and more playful but I would expect it to also hit the water in the same situations (slack enough lines that the soul crashes). So don’t expect major changes there. Regarding relaunch: I totally understand there is more stress involved with a foil kite. Although if a foil kite has trouble relaunching I guess a tube might also have some trouble (unless you bow tie that foil a lot somehow). Of course swimming in is a lot better with a tube.

So my obviously stupid sounding recommendation would be to try to crash the kite less
Maybe it’s a “phase” you need to get through? I really never crash my bigger slower kites unless the wind just stops and that seems true for pretty much all experienced foilers at my spot….

Anyway I can imagine that you already are fed up with the kite and want something new. Just having a new toy can already be a good incentive to do more kiting so certainly not saying you should not switch if you are annoyed by your kite.
Not flown either UFO or Alpha kites so I will refrain from commenting on them.

[alpaia]

Hi as you want to keep your soul and want an inflatable kite mainly for relauch and experimenting in marginal conditions did you consider a gong unik ?
Very stable and well behaved, good low end and relaunch, half the price of alpha.

[rnelias]

Hi All,

I've gotten frustrated with my beloved Soul 10m. Yes, it's a love-hate relationship. I love how it's rock stable at zenith in anything over 8kts and gets my foiling super reliable at 10kts. However now I find that as I start to try new stuff (tacking and hammering through the gybes harder) generally be less careful and more playful, as I start to do this and drop the kite the relaunch percentage is unacceptable. Mostly it drops because of lack of line tension, which causes it to go down in an odd position. I sail in a choppy place, so it needs to be back up within around 3 minutes otherwise I'm f*cked. After this many swims in, I'm kinda done with it.

I'll probably cry myself to sleep every night if I decide to sell it. As replacements I'm thinking either UFO V2 or Alpha V2 in 8m. I think those should get me foiling comfortably at 10 kts on a Levitaz Cruizer. I'm comfortable loop starting the Soul, as well as getting going with a 4m Peak4 on 12m lines in around 13kts, so I should be able to manage to get going on an 8 like that.

The goal should be to feel a bit more unlimited and able to experiment with new tricks without the fear of a big swim in at open sea. I kinda scared of the lack of upwind ability of both these kites but the UFO especially. I find the lack of upwind ability of a Peak4 seriously limiting for instance and am curious how these compare. Having used the Peak, I also know the importance of light weight on performance, so in that sense the choice should be UFO. On the other hand, the Soul did sometimes fulfill a duty as higher wind twintip machine, which the UFO definetely can not do. The Alpha V2 seems to be able to do a little double duty at least. The Alpha looks like a very well built kite, and the shape looks very slick and proportionate in the sky. Not sure of the weight penalty on the Alpha in comparision to the UFO though...

I remember from my early foiling days with Liquid Force Solos I dreaded the constant tipping over at the wind window at slight downwind angles, and having to correct them all the time. A foil kite does not do that, how are the Alpha and UFO in that regard?

Sorry for the long rambling. Looking for general advice, because I can't make up my mind.

Cheers, Nelis

I know your pain

If you're trying to progress in hydrofoil, to focus more on the board and less in the kite, forget about Peak and 0-struct kites and stick to an 1-struct like Alpha, Ultra, Boxer, etc...). I think they're perfect in the early stages of hydrofoil learning. Nice low end, super easy to relaunch, fast to handle and loop. You'll only loose the crazy upwind angles Soul can reach besides a tad of low end. I had an Alpha 8m, which helped me a ton while in the early stages. I've changed the Alpha for a Boxer 9m just because the 8m was a little bit off for my regular wind, weight and foilboard (a fine adjust). I also have Soul 8 and 12m that I rarely use for the same reason you've exposed. My sea breeze is not regular enough to keep a foil kite in the air all the time and, when it drops, is a pain to swin back, wash and dry everything, thus, I only use the Souls when I'm in spots that I consider safer to use them. People that are used with these kites will not have this kind of issue, however, experience come with time and I needed to focus more on the board than in the kite

Why the "forget about Peaks and UFOs"? Because you'd not have any advantage using them. You'd make the relaunch issue even worse, thus, make your life easier and get an 1-struct or a light 3-struct kite.

[airsail]

You will find your 10 Soul has a better top end than the 8 UFO/Cloud. I use the 8 Cloud up to 12 knots, after that I’m on the 6.2 or smaller. No struts really don’t like being overpowered, they start fluttering and become a bit of a handful but then again it isn’t what they are good for. They allow you to use the smallest/lightest kite possible for a given wind speed.
This means if your tacking, your not super powered through the tack, little lift. I’m out on the 6.2 when others are on 10’s, but I’m chasing swell, not just going back and forth. If your chasing something that you can use in higher winds maybe a single strut kite is a better option.
The no struts are so playful, super easy to relaunch and spin like a Peak. But I keep my 10 Soul for tack practice and light wind as it has a 2 knot better low end than the 8 Cloud.

[Nelis]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your input, I love the different insights you are giving. Including Leeuwen's; "maybe it's a phase, crash it less", my girlfriend made the same comment, and I think there is truth in it. Maybe I should set my expectations differently.

I get the feeling during relaunch of the Soul, the line tension doesn't build up quick enough, even when swimming against it. Maybe it's the heavy current that plays a part in it...

Part of the reason I now doubt the Soul is once on the beach, you can start it again, but it won't fly properly again until it is dry and free of sand. So the session is basically over. I was really euphoric for 10 minutes, and then swimming.

"You will find your 10 Soul has a better top end than the 8 UFO/Cloud. I use the 8 Cloud up to 12 knots, after that I’m on the 6.2 or smaller"
That's a valuable comment. Also, I realized at the same time a lot of LEIs were also swimming and walking back on the beach when I did. But they were because the kites weren't flying well, I was because I was having a blast and got too enthusiastic, running into the kite and bowtie'ed.

After two nights of sleep I think I should be looking at a kite that gets me going from approx 12kts-upwards to sit above the Soul. Super low weight is then less important, so a 1 strut 6m size should make sense I think for range and upwind. I'd happily make two bars with short and long lines to squeeze extra range out of it.

[nothing2seehere]

I'm watching this thread because I have a similar love/hate relationship and it sounds like similar conditions.

The soul 10 has a similar low end to a 13 tube kite. I'm looking at the high aspect 13m light wind kites as possible replacements (e.g. duotone juice and Kauper Nerio). I've been out at the low end on the soul (Aluula Roam crashed and couldn't relaunch territory and needing to loop the kite to waterstart instead of just diving it) and there was an older duotone Juice out at the same time that seemed to be as comfortable in the air as my soul.

From my experience, the ultra 12m doesn't drift as well as the soul and won't relaunch as easily at the bottom end though it doesn't fail as catastrophically. Like all one strut kites you need to be very careful how you crash them. If you tip them onto the trailing edge (e.g. reverse launch and stall when you spin them) then its game over and you need to wrap up the lines and try and reset the kite.

However, the Soul does a pretty good job on a twin tip for a bit of a boosting session which doubles its utility ......

As per my thread that I started - short lines on a LEI doesn't make the difference you would like. The static pull is still there, you just remove some of the power during the sweep. I like my single strut on long lines, it doesn't feel quite right on normal length lines (22m) on a hydrofoil.

[azoele]

I sold all my twin skin (in ultralight material) foils because they're really too slow in the air, and sold all my Peaks because I frankly find them dangerous.

I can wholeheartedly recommend you the KAUPER MAVERICK in the latest version.
https://en.kauper-xt.com/maverick-kite

It's a 3 strut ultralight kite for wave/foil. The previous version was fantastic, but with obvious limitations, while this new v.2 is perfect in my opinion: drifts, is incredibly fast in the air, extremely easy to relaunch, and it's the most playful kite I've ever used.
It's a lot faster in the air than the Ultras v.2, 2021 Contras, and certainly of the Alpha v.2.

I bought a 6 and 4 meters Alpha v.2 new 2 months ago, but found the 6m slow and with a heavy bar (I'd say almost the same speed as my 8m Maverick 1!).

If you are dead bent on the Alphas, I have a brand new, never opened 4m which can take the place of your Peak and ensure you never swim in again
(The Alphas are excellently made, they exude quality, and the continuous leading edge is lush. But not my cup of tea with their slowness, hard bar, and significant lift.).


But the Mavericks are just tons of fun in the air, loop maniacally, stay in the air in ridiculous breezes, and it's so nice to run under the lines hard and have them fall, only to recover them at the last second. Super.
Also: they are 3 strutters, so they don't flap.
And work wonders when underpowered (so: upwind not a problem). I could use the 10m v.1 in 7/8 real knots, at 110Kg...). The 5m v.1 I used from 13 knots, and the current 6m v2 is fun from 11 knots.

Caveat: they must be pumped hard. The combination of ultra thin leading edge and small struts calls for higher pressure. If you do so, the kite is mesmerizing.
Personally had 3 v.1s, am now on my 4th v.2... (waiting for the 12m, and own 9/6/4)

Last: they're cheap, almost as cheap as GONG (but in my view, much more focused and fun).
Amazing kite to foil the waves and play with all sorts of manouvers.

They wear well: I had some waves "eat them" during harder days, they still fly cool and no holes/tears.

Very last caveat: lift is there, but it's not a real jumping kite. Some people jump with them (and twin tip with them), but in this regard, the Alphas are better.
Riding strapless, that is my least consideration, but right to tell you.


Let me say it again: amazing, but amazing kite for foiling

P.S.
no affiliation whatsoever. The owner does not do any discount to anyone, nor does he allow demos or other stuff.
I took the risk, and have been incredibly rewarded, but pay 100% for them.

P.P.S.
for lighter winds... they make a new kite, the Nerio 13/15. That beast gets my delicate body foiling in 7 knots easy, and it's remarkably fast for a 13m 3 strutter. You can keep it in the air in 5 knots during lulls.
Amazing.
But I hate it: flies like a foil with lift (jumpers do love it though!)

Hi All,

I've gotten frustrated with my beloved Soul 10m. Yes, it's a love-hate relationship. I love how it's rock stable at zenith in anything over 8kts and gets my foiling super reliable at 10kts. However now I find that as I start to try new stuff (tacking and hammering through the gybes harder) generally be less careful and more playful, as I start to do this and drop the kite the relaunch percentage is unacceptable. Mostly it drops because of lack of line tension, which causes it to go down in an odd position. I sail in a choppy place, so it needs to be back up within around 3 minutes otherwise I'm f*cked. After this many swims in, I'm kinda done with it.

I'll probably cry myself to sleep every night if I decide to sell it. As replacements I'm thinking either UFO V2 or Alpha V2 in 8m. I think those should get me foiling comfortably at 10 kts on a Levitaz Cruizer. I'm comfortable loop starting the Soul, as well as getting going with a 4m Peak4 on 12m lines in around 13kts, so I should be able to manage to get going on an 8 like that.

The goal should be to feel a bit more unlimited and able to experiment with new tricks without the fear of a big swim in at open sea. I kinda scared of the lack of upwind ability of both these kites but the UFO especially. I find the lack of upwind ability of a Peak4 seriously limiting for instance and am curious how these compare. Having used the Peak, I also know the importance of light weight on performance, so in that sense the choice should be UFO. On the other hand, the Soul did sometimes fulfill a duty as higher wind twintip machine, which the UFO definetely can not do. The Alpha V2 seems to be able to do a little double duty at least. The Alpha looks like a very well built kite, and the shape looks very slick and proportionate in the sky. Not sure of the weight penalty on the Alpha in comparision to the UFO though...

I remember from my early foiling days with Liquid Force Solos I dreaded the constant tipping over at the wind window at slight downwind angles, and having to correct them all the time. A foil kite does not do that, how are the Alpha and UFO in that regard?

Sorry for the long rambling. Looking for general advice, because I can't make up my mind.

Cheers, Nelis