Bye Soul, hi UFO or Alpha maybe?

[leeuwen]

After two nights of sleep I think I should be looking at a kite that gets me going from approx 12kts-upwards to sit above the Soul. Super low weight is then less important, so a 1 strut 6m size should make sense I think for range and upwind. I'd happily make two bars with short and long lines to squeeze extra range out of it.

I personally find the sweet spot for my 6m kites about 16-20 knots and would have a hard time riding one in 12 knots.
e.g. parked somewhere in the wind window riding toeside I would not have enough pull to keep me going.
Of course various things and preferences will make the optimal wind range different from person to person but as a general rule I would not recommend a 6M in 12 knots unless you exactly know what you are getting yourself into.

So try to demo/borrow/rent a similar kite to what you would want to have in those conditions before buying it.

[Kamikuza]

I used Speed3 21 then 12 for low wind, but had the same experience as you.

Got a 10m Drifter to see if I'd like it and now those are all I use. I think I'd like to try a bigger single- or zero-strut to really push that low end when I can't get up on the 10m but really... I'm not missing much.

So yeah, give them a shot.

[mar menor]

Have the Ozone Alphas v1 and v2 also the PLKB synergies,think they are both great for foiling (alphas also good on surfboard)
I can do great deals on all PLKB kites ,very underated brand but less well known than 'bigger' brands
https://www.plkb.world/kiteboarding/pro ... 64d00592ee

PM me if interested

[joe f]

I have been enjoying this thread as I have actually been using my Souls a bit more recently. Why? Mainly because I need to learn to tack and switch feet (have got lazy with my Peaks as they are so easy to ride toe side all the time, but they have a lot less lift than the Souls, which doesn't help with tacks / foot changes) but also because I have *never* had to swim in with a Soul and, personally, find them the easiest kite I have ever used to relaunch.

All these things are personal, but I used to swim in with my 9m Airush Ultra every now and then as I would be tempted out in crazy light winds, crash it due to slack lines and then stand zero chance of relaunching. I find the Souls (I have a 9m and 6m) very easy to launch in the lightest of breezes.

I have just gone through a couple of years of never relaunching a kite as I have been using Peaks, which I find incredibly difficult to crash! I don't know whether that is because you have to actively fly them into the water or whether I am being far too hesitant (quite possible - I have started to question whether the fear of relaunch is holding me back). I have actually had to relaunch a few times in my past couple of sessions (both on Soul), but it was a piece of cake and I know that I would have struggled with an LEI on the second session as it ended up being extremely light wind. So light that I couldn't get back up on the foil after a crash - it was all apparent wind.

Just my personal view, but I don't think that an LEI will solve the relaunch issue in light winds. I think they are more likely to go in and are not going to be any easier to relaunch in the light stuff.

[nothing2seehere]

After two nights of sleep I think I should be looking at a kite that gets me going from approx 12kts-upwards to sit above the Soul. Super low weight is then less important, so a 1 strut 6m size should make sense I think for range and upwind. I'd happily make two bars with short and long lines to squeeze extra range out of it.

For info, my 9m Airush ultra is in its sweet spot 12-18knots and will work down to about 10knots. I'm assuming that's going to be the same for pretty much every single strut kite. So an 8/9m single strut would probably be the correct step up from the soul for that range though it will have a fair level of overlap. My 7m LEIs (not single strut) felt most comfortable from 14knots and up (maybe with 30m lines could get down to 12 knots).

[rnelias]

From my experience, the ultra 12m doesn't drift as well as the soul and won't relaunch as easily at the bottom end though it doesn't fail as catastrophically. Like all one strut kites you need to be very careful how you crash them. If you tip them onto the trailing edge (e.g. reverse launch and stall when you spin them) then its game over and you need to wrap up the lines and try and reset the kite.
...

As per my thread that I started - short lines on a LEI doesn't make the difference you would like. The static pull is still there, you just remove some of the power during the sweep. I like my single strut on long lines, it doesn't feel quite right on normal length lines (22m) on a hydrofoil.

I respectfully disagree with this sentence. 1-struct kites are super-easy to relaunch even when they crash on the leading edge. You just need a reverse relaunch. They're also super-easy to self-launch...

Here's Jake Kelsick showing a reverse relaunch with a 3-struct kite (Reach) and heavier than any 1 struct.



And yes... there's no reason to use short lines on smaller LEI kites. If we're looking for stronger and steadier wind we should do the opposite. Take advantage of faster LEI kites over 2-skin foil kites and use longer lines.

I have been enjoying this thread as I have actually been using my Souls a bit more recently. Why? Mainly because I need to learn to tack and switch feet (have got lazy with my Peaks as they are so easy to ride toe side all the time, but they have a lot less lift than the Souls, which doesn't help with tacks / foot changes) but also because I have *never* had to swim in with a Soul and, personally, find them the easiest kite I have ever used to relaunch.

All these things are personal, but I used to swim in with my 9m Airush Ultra every now and then as I would be tempted out in crazy light winds, crash it due to slack lines and then stand zero chance of relaunching. I find the Souls (I have a 9m and 6m) very easy to launch in the lightest of breezes.

I have just gone through a couple of years of never relaunching a kite as I have been using Peaks, which I find incredibly difficult to crash! I don't know whether that is because you have to actively fly them into the water or whether I am being far too hesitant (quite possible - I have started to question whether the fear of relaunch is holding me back). I have actually had to relaunch a few times in my past couple of sessions (both on Soul), but it was a piece of cake and I know that I would have struggled with an LEI on the second session as it ended up being extremely light wind. So light that I couldn't get back up on the foil after a crash - it was all apparent wind.

Just my personal view, but I don't think that an LEI will solve the relaunch issue in light winds. I think they are more likely to go in and are not going to be any easier to relaunch in the light stuff.

I think the experience with 2-skin foil kites varies a lot with your local conditions. People riding Souls, or any other 2-skin kite, in *steady* in shore sea breeze, ranging from 9-12k, will not have swinming back issues as chances to leave the kite crash and not relaunch are marginal, however, as I've cited before, my local spot has an on/off wind, sometimes with large intervals, thus, I usually don't have the 15 minutes window to relaunch a Soul before it turns into an anchor. After 10 minutes trying, with no success in 0kt wind, I just pack the kite and come back swiming. Had 4 sessions like this and gave up. I have not sold my Souls because I'm in the hope that, after gaining more experience with the hydrofoil board, It will be easier to focus on flying a foil kite better

[rnelias]

For the records:

Boxer 9m
73kg rider
850cm^2 wing (F-One IC6)
400cm^2 stab (F-One IC6)
95cm mast (alum)
Pocket board with half strap

9k-15k is my confort zone with this Boxer 9m. My 8 and 12m Souls stay in the car.

Newbie hydrofoiler. Can do foot switches and gybes but can't do tacks (yet )

I have other kites that already tried on hydrofoil. I had a Rebel 6m 2021 that surprised me. It weights about the same as the Boxer 9m, thus, it has about the same low end but you need a tad more wind and an active flying to make it pull you.

It's also something to be considered. 1-struct kites usually have lower AR as they don't have struct to support an open and wide shape, thus, they fly deeper in the wind window. 3 or 5 struct kites, with higher AR, are capable to produce the same pull in smaller sizes.

[nothing2seehere]

From my experience, the ultra 12m doesn't drift as well as the soul and won't relaunch as easily at the bottom end though it doesn't fail as catastrophically. Like all one strut kites you need to be very careful how you crash them. If you tip them onto the trailing edge (e.g. reverse launch and stall when you spin them) then its game over and you need to wrap up the lines and try and reset the kite.

I respectfully disagree with this sentence. 1-struct kites are super-easy to relaunch even when they crash on the leading edge. You just need a reverse relaunch. They're also super-easy to self-launch...

I recommend you give it (land the kite trailing edge into the water and try restarting) a go next time then - and film the results.

Not claiming that single strut kites can't be reverse launched. Just saying that if you do it poorly (and I've done it a few times where I haven't reversed the kite high enough before letting it spin) and they fall trailing edge down then there isn't the buoyancy you get with a multi strut kite to keep enough canopy above the water to hot launch. You just can't get enough line tension then to pull the kite out of the water so its swim time.

You can get the same problem with a regular style relaunch in light wind too. Pull to hard on a steering line and it can fall back on the trailing edge. Its a light wind problem more than a single strut problem - its just you get bitten in conditions that a regular kite wouldn't often be trying to fly in.

[Nelis]

Hey I typed a reponse one page back, but it's gone.. anyways.

This tread keeps getting better and better, thanks for the engagement!

The Kauper XT looks very promising, and I will look into the PLKB too. Generally browsing the major European resellers, the offerings for these types of kites are quite poor! It's hard to even find an Alpha v2 for example. But I'm not hell bent on that anyways. I love that the Kauper site starts with posting weights, pretty hard to find data on other manufacturers (except Flysurfer maybe). I couldn't find the recommended wind range on them?

The thing on the Soul is, even when you swim back, and get it to launch again, it will not fly well enough to go out and foil again since it has become way too heavy. So the session is over immediately.

The debate on size is interesting too. I think a 9m 1-strut would definetely too big next to the Soul, I would like to use it from 12-13 into the 19-20 knot range on foil. So I gravitate towards a 6 or 7m.

Time to visit the candyshop and ask which kites they have to demo...

[junebug]

Hey I typed a reponse one page back, but it's gone.. anyways.

This tread keeps getting better and better, thanks for the engagement!

The Kauper XT looks very promising, and I will look into the PLKB too. Generally browsing the major European resellers, the offerings for these types of kites are quite poor! It's hard to even find an Alpha v2 for example. But I'm not hell bent on that anyways. I love that the Kauper site starts with posting weights, pretty hard to find data on other manufacturers (except Flysurfer maybe). I couldn't find the recommended wind range on them?

The thing on the Soul is, even when you swim back, and get it to launch again, it will not fly well enough to go out and foil again since it has become way too heavy. So the session is over immediately.

The debate on size is interesting too. I think a 9m 1-strut would definetely too big next to the Soul, I would like to use it from 12-13 into the 19-20 knot range on foil. So I gravitate towards a 6 or 7m.

Time to visit the candyshop and ask which kites they have to demo...

I use three tube kites (Boxers) to cover the range of 12-20kn -- 7m for 12-15kn, 5m for 15-18kn, 4m for 18-21kn. If you want just one kite to cover that range, I would go with the 6m. Unless you don't weigh very much, you will probably struggle to get going in 12kn, but I think you will be too overpowered on a 7m at the top end of the range.

If you wanted to go with two kites, you could make a 7m and a 5m work, and you'd just be a little overpowered at the top end of the range.

For reference, I'm 195 lbs and ride a Lift 170/150 v1 surf, depending on the conditions.