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Foil board size

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bkkite
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Re: Foil board size

Postby bkkite » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:53 am

I’m 97kg and learned on a 5’2 Nobile infinity split foil and a Slingshot hover glide foil system with multiple masts.

I would say that the shorter mast didn’t make much of a difference. I rode it one or two sessions and then wanted a longer mast for more clearance.

I would say getting a high aspect ratio stable foil wing made the biggest difference. It made learning a lot easier. For my weight, I found the Infinity 76 wing to be perfect for learning and then moved to the Apollo 60 foil.

As for the board, I used that 5’2 for a year and a half and eventually got annoyed by how big and heavy it was. Having a board that big makes light wind water starts a lot easier. I just bought a 110cm Slingshot dwarf craft and it’s an amazing size to progress to. It’s faster, more nimble, much more fun to ride. So the bigger you go, the easier it is to learn but the more likely you’ll eventually outgrow it.

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Re: Foil board size

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:42 pm

lifeinthehood wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:14 pm
opti2k4 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:02 pm
I went with 4'6 board , 75cm mast and 950 spirit carve wing. Since wind is pretty bad close to I went to cable park to learn foiling but it proved to be pretty difficult. I am trying various cable speeds, 18-22km/h, but I am very unstable even without getting board out of the water. Can't say I am progressing at the speed I would like. Once I learn i'll leave this board and replace 75cm mast with 90cm and wing model will be the same just 750.
I am also learning. Just a note of caution about being towed on foil. I have tried being towed behind a friend’s boat and successfully got onto foil on my third attempt (using my kite foil setup). However, when my friend started going a little faster, I couldn’t keep the foil in the water and breached. I quit after that because i got a bit of a scare on my fall. The board hit my left knee giving me a nice bruise and the the foil came WAY too close to my face for comfort.

Lots of people recommend learning by being towed (or via cable) but having had the experience, I think it's kind of risky since you have very little control over the direction of your fall. In my case, the foil came up in front of me and the momentum from the horizontal pull of the tow rope sent me heading right for the foil. Thankfully, the board pointed slightly left and my face missed the foil. You also don’t have direct control over your driver’s speed (I did NOT want my friend to speed up just yet) or in your case the cable speed. If you do not yet have good pitch/roll/yaw control, IMHO being towed on a foil is too risky.

On a kite, assuming your kite control is halfway decent, you can send it up and away from the foil. It buys you a few precious seconds of reaction time, you can redirect your fall, and use your feet to push the foil in a different direction. So far, I have not yet had a close call scare with the foil when practicing with a kite. Not saying it can't happen, but I feel like there's more control over the situation. Just my $0.02.
Didn't the advice for learning behind a boat go back to the days before surf foils became popular? E.g. back to the days when a 500-600cm2 wing was a 'Big learner wing'? I remember at the time using a friends dinghy with small 5hp outboard and with 2 on the dinghy we couldn't go fast enough for the foil to generate enough lift to support the weight of itself and the board - whereas I reckon with the big surf wings now it would be possible.

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Re: Foil board size

Postby opti2k4 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:02 pm

So I made some progress on the cable. It is hard, harder than I would expect from the kite. The biggest problem with cable is that it just moves, you can't control how hard it pulls. When you lose balance, you can't try to recover by pulling bar on the kite, you simply must fall. The trick is to fall away from the board, that's easy when you are falling on your back since you can push yourself away from the board. When you fall on the stomach, that's bit problematic. I already fell on the foil once, have bruises on my hip and torso from mast but luckily I didn't penetrate anything (have 2mm wetsuit + impact vest). I've started with 18km/h cable speed, now I am at 22km/h, looks pretty good speed to be launched on the foil. Keeping balance and changing direction (angle of the board) on straight line by moving forward is bit tricky. Yesterday I tried to change direction to the left, pushed the wight of the body over the left edge of the board didn't start changing direction where I was going and then I fell. Was bit surprised why it didn't work. I am forcing cable because till the end of summer I want to able to foil since cable park closes over the fall/winter and then I depend on having good wind for foiling over weekends and that's not that common.

cable vs boat, cable is pulling you from above (at an angle), boat is straight 180° so using cable is more like kiting. I believe using boat doesn't give nearly an experience you would have with kite.

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Re: Foil board size

Postby IWantToFly » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:54 am

But the boat can vary its speed. Strong pull to get you up then back off to slower speed once you are foiling.

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Re: Foil board size

Postby opti2k4 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:18 am

And yesterday wasn't a good day, struggling with start and keeping balance. Cable pulls me from the right side of it and if I go to much left I can't correct my heading and fall, if I go to right I lose balance and fall. Then last night I was watching some foiling videos and saw I can steer the board same way like twintip one, pushing forward foot out and back foot in to correct where to board is heading (and vice versa for the other direction) - same like twintip. But I guess I need to be gentle on pressing back foot so don't get launched? :D . I thought I can only change direction by leaning forward and backward and I was having issues with that technique (in aspect of board wouldn't change direction when I would lean over the carving edge, not too much, just enough to move center of weight the edge side but I guess it wasn't enough or not meant to be ridden like that while board is still on the water).

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Re: Foil board size

Postby cor » Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:11 am

My advise after 6 years of foiling: You don´t need cables. You don´t need small masts and oversized foilboards. Stop overthinking. Just do it and be surprised how easy it is.

Just take your foil and a kite that you are comfortable with and go out in about 15 knots so you don´t have to worry about the kite. Try to get on the board without hovering first and just go left and right. You will not be able to keep your height so go back walk upwind. Repeat this for about 1-2 hours and then you should be able to go upwind already. Once you´ve cracked this you can technically "foil".

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Re: Foil board size

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:32 pm

opti2k4 wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:18 am
And yesterday wasn't a good day, struggling with start and keeping balance. Cable pulls me from the right side of it and if I go to much left I can't correct my heading and fall, if I go to right I lose balance and fall. Then last night I was watching some foiling videos and saw I can steer the board same way like twintip one, pushing forward foot out and back foot in to correct where to board is heading (and vice versa for the other direction) - same like twintip. But I guess I need to be gentle on pressing back foot so don't get launched? :D . I thought I can only change direction by leaning forward and backward and I was having issues with that technique (in aspect of board wouldn't change direction when I would lean over the carving edge, not too much, just enough to move center of weight the edge side but I guess it wasn't enough or not meant to be ridden like that while board is still on the water).

Agree with cor, dont try to go with a boat nor a cable.

MUCH more difficult to balance when you dont have a kite.

Regardring turning, well there has been many threads about this, but in short:

You dont turn a foilboard like a surfboard or twintip where you lean over and push the edge.

You turn by "yawing", meaning you twist your body/feet to turn the foil, very much like when you kickturn (tick-tack) a skateboard.

Pushing the edge of your foilboard does not work whatsoever...

Having learned to "yaw", you can turn really narrow, and after you have learned it will feel natural and you end up leaning into the turn just like on a surfboard or twintip.

But for starters you have to mentally think of the tick-tack motion in order to turn - practice doing slalom turns this way, when going halfwind.

Later you can use it for carving all the way around across the wind, where a narrow turn is needed, but really difficult to do and time correctly.

Using a kite, most things gets a lot easier, as you can ride using the kitelines to "lean against" - so A LOT easier to ride halfwind just concentrating on nothing but keeping the board down at the water first, and later focusing solely on keeping a steady foil depth, without thinking about balance whatsoever.
Only front foot rear foot push/balance which is by far the hardest thing on a foilboard, as so sensitive your muscle memory has to learn - YOU can not learn using your mind.

When getting pulled by cable or boat you have to learn both to foil, but also to balance - you dont need to balance when you have a kite to learn against, soooo much easier.

Later you will slowly learn to balance the foilboard, when you go deep downwind, or when you carve and jibe.

Have fun - learning is awesome :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Foil board size

Postby opti2k4 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:33 pm

I am using cable because I am limited when I am able to try to foil. After I am done with work there is no wind unfortunately so cable is the alternative. Weekends if there is wind I'll use the kite, just trying to speed learning with cable between kite session so I don't spend time on getting used to the board control.

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Re: Foil board size

Postby opti2k4 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:30 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:32 pm
Regardring turning, well there has been many threads about this, but in short:

You dont turn a foilboard like a surfboard or twintip where you lean over and push the edge.

You turn by "yawing", meaning you twist your body/feet to turn the foil, very much like when you kickturn (tick-tack) a skateboard.

Pushing the edge of your foilboard does not work whatsoever...

Having learned to "yaw", you can turn really narrow, and after you have learned it will feel natural and you end up leaning into the turn just like on a surfboard or twintip.

But for starters you have to mentally think of the tick-tack motion in order to turn - practice doing slalom turns this way, when going halfwind.

Later you can use it for carving all the way around across the wind, where a narrow turn is needed, but really difficult to do and time correctly.
That's what I mean when said "pushing forward foot out and back foot in to correct where to board is heading (and vice versa for the other direction)". So it's the same principle with foil board when you want to slalom. So while the board is in the water should I be worried (prepared) when doing this that board would launch me without putting excessive weight on the back leg?

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Re: Foil board size

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:00 pm

No, you should never turn the board when on the surface, so dont "push" with your feet.

As yes, you should be VERY worried the foil will push you out of the water, with even the slightest push from your feet.
You can not move your feet, once foiling, as the foil will shoot up or down radically if you do so, and end catastrophally :naughty:

When learned it is possible yes, but not when learning.

8) Peter


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