Are monofoils the future of foiling?

[Peter_Frank]

Question is why still no any major foil brand released monowings? No Moses, levitaz and etc. Why? We need such wings in every major brand lineup!!!!!! Sabmoses please release monowing!!!!!!

And what is ýour reasoning for wanting this?

Peter

[a99]

I can bet that after 5 years quite all usual foilers will use monowings, professional races or freestyle jumpers probably not.

[Willy1234]

Hey guys,

I have now over 40 sessions with my t1. And I can still not believe how fast you are able to learn new tricks. Especially tricks that a good rider isn‘t capable of learning because you aren’t riding every day and getting money for kiteboarding.

Can you quantify why it is easier and what kind of new things you are learning?
I only had a 10 minute session on a t1 but I would expect the opposite to be true:
I found it very maneuverable BUT I would argue the slower the board reacts to input the better for learning new things.
In general while learning I never think: I am limited because my foil moves to slowly to my input.
At the same time having less, especially, pitch stability makes a lot of things harder to do.

Compared to my 679 the T1 also seemed to need a little bit more power. Slow speed stability / stalling felt less predictable then my 679 setup. I am sure there is some getting used to part of that but it certainly wasn’t obviously better for me at these things.

Of course the T1 is a lot more maneuverable.
I am sure there is a market for that and some other benefits (and drawbacks) but I don’t think it’s a product that will replace the majority of the current foils. I think for that it would need more stability to cater to a wider range of riders and/or a very significant pricing advantage.
I currently see it as something that adds to the spectrum of possibilities just like a race setup. Some will like it but it is not something that’s going to be mainstream in its current form.

I used to ride 2 setups: 679 with 330/483 or 438 I think. I always had to switch the stab when we had very low wind (below 10 kts) or higher winds >10kts. The 679 is unpumpable for me with a small stab. I can pump the T1 or go nearly the same speed as with the 679/330 combo. So first thing is definitely space. The 633 makes no big difference for me compared to 679 with big Stab in terms of light wind. When I talk about new things, I think about the different options when free styling. You can do different combos with the foil under and over the water. Surfing on the water and standard foiling gives new freedom when it comes to free styling.

From the stability point I didn't felt much difference compared to the 679/330 combo. It is far away from 590 or 550. So for me that was no reason. After 5hours riding my body get used to the different feeling. For sure, it is completely different feeling. But as soon as you get used to it, you can start to pushing your limits. Or did you start riding any new foil and 30min where enough to ride it in different ways? I think it needs some time to get used to new things that are different.

Another big reason for learning tricks much easier is the stability when it comes to very slow speed. You can go with nearly no speed and just turn, move or something else. It can go extremely slow and still flies.

Compared to my friends with the 679 and 633 setup. We start foiling at the same wind speed... I don't feel any difference in low wind performance. And I can pump it, so its really comparable to a got low wind foil.

Hope I could help a bit.

[br44]

Question is why still no any major foil brand released monowings? No Moses, levitaz and etc. Why? We need such wings in every major brand lineup!!!!!! Sabmoses please release monowing!!!!!!

Some are out there. Same wing I understand, different branding. Never tried it:

https://deltahydrofoil.com/products/1500-reflex

https://kiteboarding.com/proddetail.asp ... ngs&cat=27

[azoele]

If I may interject on the subject: the thing rarely said about the T1 is that it really rides different than a normal surf foil.
There is no way around that.

I own one, and am a bit at odds with mine (possibly because I'm a bit out of the intended usage envelope being 110Kg, which was considered to be about 70-90kg for the average rider), but also appreciate its incredible capabilities.

A couple of examples: the T1 is very pitch sensitive. Forget your current surf foil: after riding the T1 for a while it will feel like you are foiling your kitchen table.
The stall behaviour is truly low A/R style: it "sinks" under my weight slowly. But differently than wings like the 633 or the Gong Curve, it can be always recovered and you always stay foiling.
It has very, very limited drag, so even if you are late with the kite (or mistake a tack and find yourself not properly positioned and angled) the foil will not oppose resistance to kite pull and you'll probably get moving rather than fall.
It can carve *hard*. Difficult to explain, but you can jibe hard and feel it slice super tight through the turn. This is its best feeling by the way.
It makes ridiculous turns even during your first outings. Getting back to a "agile" surf foil type all of a sudden feels more like riding rails (which I quite like, by the way).
It breaches (it's huge!!!) but it won't make you fall. It just goes in and out of the water. That is such a strange feeling.

Then, other things are not so straight forward.
Footswitch works the opposite of normal kites, and if you are used to little kite pull during the transition, the T1 will be hard. You need to control it with the backfoot, so rather than rushing to put your other foot on the front of the board, you rather rush to secure the back part of the board, else you'll smack the water. And being unstable footswitches require fine tuning. Not easy in my view, at first.
Tacking is a hard beast: the carving behaviour glues you to the foil wreaking havok to the kite timing and basically turning every previous muscle memory (or almost) into an impedment or so.
It is not sharp... but it flies out of the water.
Watch your phisical condition: it sucks my legs dry with the micro-corrections, so my battery lasts 50m rather than 70/80 minutes as on my normal foil (yes, I'm crap, I know!). After that, it's hard business, because falls too require new muscle memory.

After 3h, I took a bit of a rest, dismounted it, and enjoyed my previous setup – which I found all of a sudden to be ridiculously easy! All of a sudden I kept chaining tack after tack standing frontwise on my board with my feet parallel! It felt like cheating!

And yet: I'll be riding the Triton again, because it is, by any stretch of imagination, a *mesmerizing* ride. It is so different in the feelings it gives back, in the way it rides, and in the opportunities it opens, that I always feel the "siren's call". Can't wait actually...
I just wished they made it bigger for us overeaters to help us out a bit.

But saying "if you jibe you can ride it" is a bit misdirecting in my opinion.
The point is not much "jibing", rather that as said the usual foil muscle memory applies to riding it... but only partially. The remaining part is actually detrimental.

If they made a bigger, a bit more tamed one, I'm sure people could *learn* on that. New foilers would build a different set of muscle memory and habits compared to the stab-riders, a different type of equilibrium on the board, and that will be that.
Once you teach your body its language, the T1 becomes natural. Before that, can be painful.

But again: very, very different feelings between a monofoil and stabbed riding.
I love dearly the locked in feeling of my current setup, riding circles during toeside tacks, everything. But the slashes you can do on the T1 look more like what surfboarders do, you can change direction on a whim, and you never need feel stalling again.
After using it, I can understand the allure of a monowing, and how it opens a new dimension for foilers interested in tight turns, and carves on the waves.
Honestly, I am looking forward to a possible T2 or T1+ for heavier riders (i.e. the lady in the latest video rides with her back foot quite a bit in front of the mast; if I do that I do not even initiate foiling!!! I need to step many cm back to give it a chance )

[ronnie]

Question is why still no any major foil brand released monowings? No Moses, levitaz and etc. Why? We need such wings in every major brand lineup!!!!!! Sabmoses please release monowing!!!!!!

Some are out there. Same wing I understand, different branding. Never tried it:

https://deltahydrofoil.com/products/1500-reflex

https://kiteboarding.com/proddetail.asp ... ngs&cat=27

Another monofoil is the Spleene. According to this test, it works best when ridden fast and requires a high skill level.

[TritonFoils]

Question is why still no any major foil brand released monowings? No Moses, levitaz and etc. Why? We need such wings in every major brand lineup!!!!!! Sabmoses please release monowing!!!!!!

Some are out there. Same wing I understand, different branding. Never tried it:

https://deltahydrofoil.com/products/1500-reflex

https://kiteboarding.com/proddetail.asp ... ngs&cat=27

Just an FYI that these links are to FONT WINGS with a modest amount of convex (the north) and reflex (on the delta). One has one and the other the other. Neither has both and not to the comparatively extreme levels of the T1. There are no “copies” of the T1 which is patent pending in the US. Hope this helps re clarification. There is a lot of engineering in the T1 beyond reflex and convex that we are proud of and owes a great deal to Goetz Bramsfeld, Associate Professor of Aeronautics engineering at Ryerson University in Toronto, Canada to give credit where credit is due! Rudy @TritonFoils.

https://www.tritonfoils.com/goetz.html

[Sbrinckman]

@Rudy, can you elaborate on any future releases? T1+, T2, monofoil for winging? Smaller one for high winds? Higher AR?

Stinos

[TritonFoils]

Sure thing. We are currently prototyping a monofoil for winging and are really happy with how it is coming together. This is likely a Q1/Q2 2023 release.

We are also curious as to what kite foilers would like in terms of new monofoil wing performance specs.

The T1 at 1705 cm2 rides like a 1100-1200cm2 standard foil set up given a not insignificant portion of the total surface area is utilized for performance attributes other than lift (e.g. pitch stability).

The T currently has a speed range of approximately 8kts on the low in and seem to top out according to various riders' experiences at 24kts.

Do riders want a faster wing? This could be an option with the possibility of losing some pitch control at lower speeds vs. the current model.

If more pitch stability is the desired attribute likely this will result in a slower wing re: top end speeds and lower low end speeds.

In short, there are trade offs....

The T1 we feel currently does a pretty good job of navigating desire for stability vs. desire for a wide speed range.

Riders' thoughts and input most welcome!

Rudy@TritonFoils

[cor]

We are also curious as to what kite foilers would like in terms of new monofoil wing performance specs.

I feels to me like there are already like a zillion freeride wings for low-powered foiling and wingfoiling on the market but not enough products really dedicated for big air kitefoiling. That is why I would like to see a monofoil that´s light, very stable at high speeds and that can also take a beating, dedicated to high powered big air kitefoiling.

Do riders want a faster wing? This could be an option with the possibility of losing some pitch control at lower speeds vs. the current model.

I wouldn´t care about less pitch control at lower speeds at all. All what matters is that it stays stable at high speed.