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question about first hydrofoil lessons

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Archer77
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question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby Archer77 » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:24 pm

Hey there!

yesterday the school asked me if I want to book 2 hour hydrofoil lessons today, because the day before I was at the beach with good wind and they gave me 1 hour lesson without booking
I have replied: Yes if the wind is good for learning hydrofoil water start (I have already done 6 hour before these)
Today 2 hours before the lesson I have seen the wind at my spot would have probably raised from the actual 15kn to 18 gusting over 20, this spot is also famous for inconsistent wind with lots of gust and lulls and 40 cm chop, and in my opinion was not the best and most secure condition to learn water start, and tried to ask if was possible to delete the 2 hour lesson
They insisted that with a 7m kite it would have been fine
I took the lesson with 18kn gusting to more than 20 with the 7 m but I felt cheated because the 7m was very fast and to me appeared also dangerous trying water start in that conditions
(also they didn't have a short mast hydrofoil to offer)

who is wrong, me or the school? in what measure?

thank you
Best

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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby junebug » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:37 pm

The school didn't do anything wrong. Those are not ideal conditions to learn foiling, but no school guarantees ideal conditions, and it is all a matter of degree. A 7m in 18kn is fine to learn on. You don't say you actually got hurt, so what's the problem?
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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby Archer77 » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:50 pm

junebug wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:37 pm
The school didn't do anything wrong. Those are not ideal conditions to learn foiling, but no school guarantees ideal conditions, and it is all a matter of degree. A 7m in 18kn is fine to learn on. You don't say you actually got hurt, so what's the problem?
it's seams already difficult to control both the board and the kite... with a 7m speeding in the wind window seamed to me more a question of luck to learn something

I have had some progress... from 2 meter ride after the water start I progressed to 15 m (circa) with very unstable riding... I don't know what to think probably is correct in this way...

In 2 hours I have probably made 20 crash, the most keeping far from the board but other more risky

I can't take the board very low with 50cm chop... or is still possible? for me was almost impossible

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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby leeuwen » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:58 pm

Hi,

Sad to hear you had a bad experience.
I think it all depends from person to person what works and people are comfortable with.
Some things certainly get a lot easier with more wind (eg you are unlikely to create a slack lines situation, and kite relaunch is super easy ) but at the same time you have a quicker kite and a bit more risk of the higher wind speed. Also it’s even easier to go what feels like “out of control” quick on the foil in higher wind speeds. Chop obviously doesn’t help but it depends a bit on the exact type of chop and if there is shore break how bad it would be.

Usually I would recommend people learning to go out with at least 12 kn and optimal would be around 14-15.
18 would not be that far off optimal but if it’s very gusty that doesn’t help (18-21 is quite ok but 18-27 would be bad).
Obviously flat water would be easiest but depends on the spot if there is any chance of that happening at all.

All in all I would say it’s certainly doesn’t sound optimal but since we cannot plan the weather you sometimes have to make do with what you got.
I think there is also a bit of a choice you need to make for yourself. eg rather wait for a better day or since you are already there making use of the option.
It certainly doesn’t sound like an irresponsible thing to given HF lessons in 20 ish knots as long as the water state is not to bad.
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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby Janus » Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:00 pm

Agree with other repliers
Have to add that a longer mast is easier to learn, the shorter the mast the easier you ventilate…
Don’t school’s learn that you taxi ride first? Meaning keeping the board in the water. When you increase your speed you will feel the foil lifting but try to keep it on the water.. after a few racks you will fly..
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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby bragnouff » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:15 am

The assumption before learning to hydrofoil is to be a competent kiter. So riding a 7m kite in 20kts should not really be a problem. And yes, the first hour(s) of that learning curve should be all about NOT FOILING, learning to put as much pressure on the front to prevent the board from rising, so the size of the mast should not matter much there either.

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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby Archer77 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:47 am

Janus wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:00 pm
Agree with other repliers
Have to add that a longer mast is easier to learn, the shorter the mast the easier you ventilate…
Don’t school’s learn that you taxi ride first? Meaning keeping the board in the water. When you increase your speed you will feel the foil lifting but try to keep it on the water.. after a few racks you will fly..
what I'm trying to do is exactly to keep the board on the water, but chop stop me...

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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby Archer77 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:15 pm

Thank You for all the good replies!

my idea are now more clear, first kite foil lessons where you have to water start and do the first run have to be done on almost flat water(not 50 cm chop) so you can take the board down and eventually practice very small run on the hydrofoil

Hydrofoil is evolving and schools are developing the way they teach, I'm confident that in future they will fix these cornerstone for a good progression

so, if you can have almost flat water with 18 knots and a 7 meter kite, it is ok, but not my case in my humble opinion!

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Re: question about first hydrofoil lessons

Postby PeaBody » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:01 pm

Its tricky I guess, I had a 2 hour lesson booked, went to the beach and ended up on my 6m due to the wind... and as you can imagine it was choppy!

I went ahead with the lesson, and it was great, was riding both ways on the foil within the 2 hours (I wasn't going upwind very well but hey).

My instructor made sure I was competent enough to give it a go... and for the first 20 / 30 mins, practised walking out with the foil and kite, getting it into position, then coming back in again. So dragging off the shore and then setting myself, then doing nothing more but coming back in and then repeating. Did this a few times without even attempting to ride the foil... he had a BB talkin device so was talking me through this the whole time. Then we progressed to riding the foil, but when I say riding the whole objective was to keep the foil in the water and ride the board skipping the surface.... then then next progression to the foil.

For me it worked, but I have been TT riding for about 8 years so my kite skills were good enough were I could almost leave the kite to muscle memory. Its not easy though!
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