Gong hydrofoil component weights

[Flyboy]

I don't get it. Why are you being such weight-weenies about this? We all know that on the water minor differences in weight make no appreciable difference. Also, it seems to me that a lot of what Gong has been creating recently has been more oriented towards winging, rather than kite foiling. The Gong monobloc foil seems perfectly adequate to me - strong, stiff, reasonably light, easy to use and very inexpensive. The only downside is a little more difficulty in air travel.

[1234567Simon]

I changed from a 5,5kg Gong Foil to a 3,5kg Gong foil...
Aprox 1,5kg weight-loss from Wings and Fuselage.....

Trust me!!!! IT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!! ON THE WATER!! IN THE WATER!! AND OF THE WATER!!!! AND OF COURSE IN THE AIR!!!!

[roQer]

I changed from a heavy Gong setup to a light foil (carbon mast and pro fuselage) and a light board (Appletree) as well. Can confirm it makes a huge difference in everything besides maybe first steps for beginners.

[Flyboy]

I changed from a 5,5kg Gong Foil to a 3,5kg Gong foil...
Aprox 1,5kg weight-loss from Wings and Fuselage.....

Trust me!!!! IT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!! ON THE WATER!! IN THE WATER!! AND OF THE WATER!!!! AND OF COURSE IN THE AIR!!!!

I don't need to trust you - I've had a variety of foils from pretty heavy to extremely light.

The difference between 3.5 kg and 5.5 kg is huge - about 60% increase in weight, so yes, that would be noticeable. The difference in 100 or 200 gms - not so much. I will grant you that if you're interested in jumping a foil (I'm not) weight makes more of a difference. Gong carbon foils have got heavier as they've beefed up the construction to accommodate the much larger wings people are using for winging. If your primary interest is jumping, a slimmer mast and light, thin race wings would be the way to go.

[azoele]

I don't get it. Why are you being such weight-weenies about this? We all know that on the water minor differences in weight make no appreciable difference. Also, it seems to me that a lot of what Gong has been creating recently has been more oriented towards winging, rather than kite foiling. The Gong monobloc foil seems perfectly adequate to me - strong, stiff, reasonably light, easy to use and very inexpensive. The only downside is a little more difficulty in air travel.

Don't get too upset at this, this is also a technical forum after all

Personally, the change in weight has affected me a lot in carrying comfort, but that is not the reason I am interested.
Masts: I owned all 3 generations of carbon masts, and have seen the change from the V.1 monoblock which was very flexy (and so comfortable to ride) and light, to the V.2 monoblock which gained lots of weight (and got stiffer, easy to feel under the feet), to the new non-monoblock (even stiffer than the V.2 monoblock, again something I could feel) but also again much heavier due to the Aluminium fuselage.
Wings: this is more "nerdy" stuff, I agree But! but: it could also help somebody spot a faulty item. My Fluid L was 1.8Kg for example... GONG states a 5% tolerance, but mine was about 35/40% out of spec.

And, in any case, I can say this: even if this is nerding curiosity (because one may not jump and thus have less need for lighter ensambles) weight considerations might still influence buying decisions.
After feeling the lightness of the Triton T1 + its own mast (3Kg) I got much less happy at my GONG setup.
And reading here of how much weight can be saved by going with the new Pro fuselage and -h stabs is proving very helpful to me for travel planning, as you also suggested.

And as usual on the net, I am sure others have their own reasons for being curious

P.S.
even GONG cares about weight.
The new -H masts are described as "lighter" than the previous carbon ones.
Although – and this is a bit ominous – they seem to recommend them to expert riders as they apparently require more care in "handling", whatever that may mean. Perhaps less resistant to hits? (there is some hint in this in their forums, where it is stated that the 85 is "thicker" for freestyle vs the slimmer 92 which is more all-round/race).
Here too weight might be a consideration: if a -H mast is 30% lighter than the current carbon, that may be a tradeoff worth accepting for many.
But if it is only 5 or 10%, then it may not (for me). Again: information can be power... and an excellent way to waste time!

[Flyboy]

Don't get too upset at this, this is also a technical forum after all

Personally, the change in weight has affected me a lot in carrying comfort, but that is not the reason I am interested.
Masts: I owned all 3 generations of carbon masts, and have seen the change from the V.1 monoblock which was very flexy (and so comfortable to ride) and light, to the V.2 monoblock which gained lots of weight (and got stiffer, easy to feel under the feet), to the new non-monoblock (even stiffer than the V.2 monoblock, again something I could feel) but also again much heavier due to the Aluminium fuselage.
Wings: this is more "nerdy" stuff, I agree But! but: it could also help somebody spot a faulty item. My Fluid L was 1.8Kg for example... GONG states a 5% tolerance, but mine was about 35/40% out of spec.

And, in any case, I can say this: even if this is nerding curiosity (because one may not jump and thus have less need for lighter ensambles) weight considerations might still influence buying decisions.
After feeling the lightness of the Triton T1 + its own mast (3Kg) I got much less happy at my GONG setup.
And reading here of how much weight can be saved by going with the new Pro fuselage and -h stabs is proving very helpful to me for travel planning, as you also suggested.

And as usual on the net, I am sure others have their own reasons for being curious

P.S.
even GONG cares about weight.
The new -H masts are described as "lighter" than the previous carbon ones.
Although – and this is a bit ominous – they seem to recommend them to expert riders as they apparently require more care in "handling", whatever that may mean. Perhaps less resistant to hits? (there is some hint in this in their forums, where it is stated that the 85 is "thicker" for freestyle vs the slimmer 92 which is more all-round/race).
Here too weight might be a consideration: if a -H mast is 30% lighter than the current carbon, that may be a tradeoff worth accepting for many.
But if it is only 5 or 10%, then it may not (for me). Again: information can be power... and an excellent way to waste time!

I'm not really understanding your point. The 3 versions of the Gong carbon mast have got progressively stiffer ... but also heavier. So what do you value more, the stiffness or the weight? Now the new H mast is again thinner, lighter and (possibly) as stiff as the V2 or V3 masts?

Everyone decides what they are prepared to invest in new equipment, but for myself I think it's better to be satisfied with what you have rather than constantly lusting after the "latest and greatest" - consumerism gone mad - unless there's a really clear performance advantage to the new technology. It doesn't seem to me that there's a compelling reason to "upgrade" from the V2 mono bloc.

The comparison to the Triton monowing is an interesting one. The Triton (with alu mast) is a pretty light ensemble. It's also easier to transport and carry as it it's less "3 dimensional". I'm not sure about the extreme floatiness, however ... I appreciate the way my Gong foil obediently motors down wind towards me after a crash!

[Janus]

@Flyboy, the difference with the new, so called "Pro" stab is really significant.. and then you unfortunatly simply have to get another mast V2 or now the H mast..

[Flyboy]

@Flyboy, the difference with the new, so called "Pro" stab is really significant.. and then you unfortunatly simply have to get another mast V2 or now the H mast..

Is it "really significant" in on-water performance... or "really significant" in the specs? It takes me back to my windsurfing days, when there there was a constant "arms race" to find a lighter, board (+ fins/sails/mast) so that you could go faster. Going fast was a key goal for a lot of windsurfers. With arrival of kitesurfing, the focus moved away from speed - it was more about what manoeuvres you pull off. That had a lot more to do with the development of skills and less to do with equipment ... I guess that's changed a bit with the arrival of "big air" and the woo.

Kite foiling for me is all about riding swell and waves. I'm not seeing a huge need for super light foils ... I do see that if you're into big air with a foil it would be different. Also, I can see that extra glide efficiency is more of an advantage with wing foiling, where you have less ability to generate power on demand.

Haven't tried the V3 Gong mast with "pro" accessaries .. and obviously not the new H masts. But as it stands, I'm really happy with the performance and feel of my V2 mono bloc set-up.

[azoele]

I'm not really understanding your point. The 3 versions of the Gong carbon mast have got progressively stiffer ... but also heavier. So what do you value more, the stiffness or the weight? Now the new H mast is again thinner, lighter and (possibly) as stiff as the V2 or V3 masts?

Everyone decides what they are prepared to invest in new equipment, but for myself I think it's better to be satisfied with what you have rather than constantly lusting after the "latest and greatest" - consumerism gone mad - unless there's a really clear performance advantage to the new technology. It doesn't seem to me that there's a compelling reason to "upgrade" from the V2 mono bloc.

The comparison to the Triton monowing is an interesting one. The Triton (with alu mast) is a pretty light ensemble. It's also easier to transport and carry as it it's less "3 dimensional". I'm not sure about the extreme floatiness, however ... I appreciate the way my Gong foil obediently motors down wind towards me after a crash!

Don't take it personally: it's not like anyone is "pushing" to have others upgrade.
As I understood it, the thread was meant to build an encyclopedia of GONG's weights, something the firm always avoided.
It's a materials forum... no surprise we obsess over details
It's a rifugium peccatorum away from wives, progeny, work, where we can be children ourselves even if we don't realize it and think we are grown ups seriously discussing important things!

Plus, at least in my case, the less I'm able to kite... the more I fall into this rabbit's hole and
And as to "clear advantage", I think not all of us care only for performance.
I for once wish to try as many combinations I can to test, learn, and find what works best for me and when. I.e.: I know full well the old Curve M-t would work (almost) as good as my Fluid L-s, especially with the Kite 40 stab. But the Fluid I enjoy more

As to masts: I am getting the idea that, if riding with "smallish" wings – i.e. "M" sized, or the new -S/-XS sizes, the old v.1 monoblock is probably just wonderful. It flexes, which translates into an exceedingly comfortable ride, something totally lost on the latest masts.
A truly rigid board on a v.2 monoblock or v.3 carbon makes for a very hard feeling under the board.


Ciao!

P.S.
pm-ed you, don't know if you got them

[Janus]

@flyboy, really significant in performance, less drag feeling, way better glide. In numbers for me 5km/h faster then compared with Veloce S stab.(with Fluid XLH and MH)
The numbers are not that important, the feeling is much better.
But still far away from feeling with my kitefoil setup (yes very light package..)
Problem with trying the “better” gear is you won’t go back that easily.. so if you’re happy with what you ride it’s better to not try the HA wing stuff.. better for your wallet..