Slingshot Phantasm 633 vs Moses Sabfoil

[luke-warmwater]

Hi, has anyone ridden the Phantasm 633 and the Moses Sabfoil 633 and can give an opinion of the differences and benefits?

I'm aware that these two companies have a shared history, but I'm interested to know if the wings give a similar ride, being very similar designs except for the small winglets on the Slingshot?

What about build quality? I've had a 1 and 2 series Sabfoil before so I'm aware of the minor quality issues and the challenges of living with a glossy foil but Slingshot aren't perfect either. Would you say the Slingshot is more robust than pre-kraken Sabfoils? Has the Phantasm mast held up to its claims of being ultra strong?

And what about weight? I imagine the Phantasm must be a bit heavier than the 1 series Sabfoil (although probably a fair bit stiffer)? But how does the weight of the Phantasm compare to the new Kraken set up?

Any views much appreciated.

[Foil]

the old slingshot 633 was made by Moses and re badged, same wing,maybe a year older, the very early Ist edition 633 was slightly more heavy, it sank, i had one of the first moses 633 wings, soon changed to the lighter floating 633 6months later,
moses now sab are (i believe) reintroducing the 633 with 8mm mounting holes, which is happy news.
the kraken mast system is miles in front of the game, fast, silent, not expensive for what it is, unbreakable is a big reason to buy, and its one high performance mast for all wing sports,
the others are now history.
the new carbon mast plate and quick release pin is a must have, mast is fast and silent from out of the box, just go ride it.

[grigorib]

You got the points right. I’ve had first “heavy and sinking” 633, had the second floating one, gave up on 633 and went 683s (aka 679) in spring 2019 and rode that one for a year also trying 679 along the way. Tried Phantasm 633 too. Haven’t had Kraken in my hands and not planning to go Kraken ever. I don’t need extra 2 lbs of weigh in my mast. I ride carbon for weight reason as well.
I prefer higher aspect wings nowadays, even for lightwind riding.
Phantasm is heavier, to the point a friend is going to sell his brand new 633 Phantasm and buy good old Moses or used GW 633. Yet phantasm has very good mast/fuselage connection compared to old Moses which is prone to getting inserts pulled out, especially by large wings.
I think wings ride the same, I wish guys had better surf stabilizers (thin, ~300 cm² area, winglets pointed up) like one I ride. I will certainly ride Phantasm wings in the future, I think I will not ride Kraken.

In a nutshell - kitefoil wings in my opinion don’t belong onto surf fuselage. I ride all my kite wings - 600 cm² race, 730 cm² freeride, 840 cm² Moses 800, 860 cm² “mini 633”, 1200 cm² lightwind - all on same 647 fuselage and I’m happy.
My winging wings go onto bigger and longer fuselage with M8 bolts and I like it that way too.

[Nak]

I have both the Phantasm 633 and a Moses 633. The Phantasm has better yaw stability and yet turns just as easy; overall it's just a slightly more refined ride. The Phantasm 633 wing is much heavier than the Moses; this is both good and bad. The Phantasm wing wing will sink, which makes getting back to the board easy. The Moses 633 wing floats which on some boards can make it impossible to body drag back to. Not all boards, but certainly some. The extra weight of the Phantasm is probably partly responsible for the more refined ride feel. The advantage the lighter Moses 633 is that it's easier to carry. If you're going for the lightest kit possible, the Moses is the choice. Better ride and easier to body drag to, get the Phantasm. Or better yet, if you have a bit of experience under your belt, get a better wing like the 684 or the 730 and get a light wing and a way more fun ride.

[Naucala]

I had the Moses 633 with the 101cm and 111cm mast for years. Had the problem with the inserts, comig out of the mast (as described from grigori). The new kraken system I dont like - to heavy mast. The concection from the mast to the fuselage of the slingshot phantasm looks very robust. I jump often and hope with the phantasm to get a more solid foil. If I really notice, that the 633 wing is too heavy, I will try the 684. RDB-Foils are not available in Germany - would be interestingto know how stable their foils are for jumping.

[Dkite]

I've been looking to replace my Slingshot Phantasm 633 because I think its a little heavy.
With my weight 68kg I dont think I need that robust of a foil..

Anyway I've weighed all the pieces of my Slingshot Phantasm 633 and I thought I'd share it in case anyone needs this.
Also collected the weights of the Moses 633

Slingshot complete: 4276
Slingshot Mast: 1871
Slingshot Fuselage 974
Phantasm Frontwing 633 1264
Stab PS400 167

Moses 633 complete 3300
Moses Mast 1496
Moses Plane (633/749/483) 1815
Moses Frontwing 633 742
Sabfoil 679 frontwing 620

Moses 633 complete 3300
Slingshot 633 complete 4276
Slingshot complete w Moses 633: 3754
Slingshot complete w Sabfoil 679: 3632

The main weight difference is in the front wing about 500 grams! and then the mast is 400 grams difference.
I guess the last option riding my Slingshot Phantasm with the 679 isn't a bad option in terms of weight.

[lifeinthehood]

What's this "mini 633" that fits on a kite fuse?

You got the points right. I’ve had first “heavy and sinking” 633, had the second floating one, gave up on 633 and went 683s (aka 679) in spring 2019 and rode that one for a year also trying 679 along the way. Tried Phantasm 633 too. Haven’t had Kraken in my hands and not planning to go Kraken ever. I don’t need extra 2 lbs of weigh in my mast. I ride carbon for weight reason as well.
I prefer higher aspect wings nowadays, even for lightwind riding.
Phantasm is heavier, to the point a friend is going to sell his brand new 633 Phantasm and buy good old Moses or used GW 633. Yet phantasm has very good mast/fuselage connection compared to old Moses which is prone to getting inserts pulled out, especially by large wings.
I think wings ride the same, I wish guys had better surf stabilizers (thin, ~300 cm² area, winglets pointed up) like one I ride. I will certainly ride Phantasm wings in the future, I think I will not ride Kraken.

In a nutshell - kitefoil wings in my opinion don’t belong onto surf fuselage. I ride all my kite wings - 600 cm² race, 730 cm² freeride, 840 cm² Moses 800, 860 cm² “mini 633”, 1200 cm² lightwind - all on same 647 fuselage and I’m happy.
My winging wings go onto bigger and longer fuselage with M8 bolts and I like it that way too.

[grigorib]

What's this "mini 633" that fits on a kite fuse?

You got the points right. I’ve had first “heavy and sinking” 633, had the second floating one, gave up on 633 and went 683s (aka 679) in spring 2019 and rode that one for a year also trying 679 along the way. Tried Phantasm 633 too. Haven’t had Kraken in my hands and not planning to go Kraken ever. I don’t need extra 2 lbs of weigh in my mast. I ride carbon for weight reason as well.
I prefer higher aspect wings nowadays, even for lightwind riding.
Phantasm is heavier, to the point a friend is going to sell his brand new 633 Phantasm and buy good old Moses or used GW 633. Yet phantasm has very good mast/fuselage connection compared to old Moses which is prone to getting inserts pulled out, especially by large wings.
I think wings ride the same, I wish guys had better surf stabilizers (thin, ~300 cm² area, winglets pointed up) like one I ride. I will certainly ride Phantasm wings in the future, I think I will not ride Kraken.

In a nutshell - kitefoil wings in my opinion don’t belong onto surf fuselage. I ride all my kite wings - 600 cm² race, 730 cm² freeride, 840 cm² Moses 800, 860 cm² “mini 633”, 1200 cm² lightwind - all on same 647 fuselage and I’m happy.
My winging wings go onto bigger and longer fuselage with M8 bolts and I like it that way too.

860 cm² wing - third from the bottom

[Nak]

I've been looking to replace my Slingshot Phantasm 633 because I think its a little heavy.
With my weight 68kg I dont think I need that robust of a foil..

Anyway I've weighed all the pieces of my Slingshot Phantasm 633 and I thought I'd share it in case anyone needs this.
Also collected the weights of the Moses 633

Slingshot complete: 4276
Slingshot Mast: 1871
Slingshot Fuselage 974
Phantasm Frontwing 633 1264
Stab PS400 167

Moses 633 complete 3300
Moses Mast 1496
Moses Plane (633/749/483) 1815
Moses Frontwing 633 742
Sabfoil 679 frontwing 620

Moses 633 complete 3300
Slingshot 633 complete 4276
Slingshot complete w Moses 633: 3754
Slingshot complete w Sabfoil 679: 3632

The main weight difference is in the front wing about 500 grams! and then the mast is 400 grams difference.
I guess the last option riding my Slingshot Phantasm with the 679 isn't a bad option in terms of weight.

That Moses mast you have weighed is the 91 cm mast, correct? That's not an apples to apples comparison; the 91 Moses mast is a noodle. The 92 cm Moses mast is about the same weight as the Phantasm 92cm mast. Also, interestingly, my Phantasm 92 cm mast weighs in about 100 grams lighter than yours at 1776 grams. My Moses 91 cm weighs in 28 grams heavier than yours.

[Dkite]

I've been looking to replace my Slingshot Phantasm 633 because I think its a little heavy.
With my weight 68kg I dont think I need that robust of a foil..

Anyway I've weighed all the pieces of my Slingshot Phantasm 633 and I thought I'd share it in case anyone needs this.
Also collected the weights of the Moses 633

Slingshot complete: 4276
Slingshot Mast: 1871
Slingshot Fuselage 974
Phantasm Frontwing 633 1264
Stab PS400 167

Moses 633 complete 3300
Moses Mast 1496
Moses Plane (633/749/483) 1815
Moses Frontwing 633 742
Sabfoil 679 frontwing 620

Moses 633 complete 3300
Slingshot 633 complete 4276
Slingshot complete w Moses 633: 3754
Slingshot complete w Sabfoil 679: 3632

The main weight difference is in the front wing about 500 grams! and then the mast is 400 grams difference.
I guess the last option riding my Slingshot Phantasm with the 679 isn't a bad option in terms of weight.

That Moses mast you have weighed is the 91 cm mast, correct? That's not an apples to apples comparison; the 91 Moses mast is a noodle. The 92 cm Moses mast is about the same weight as the Phantasm 92cm mast. Also, interestingly, my Phantasm 92 cm mast weighs in about 100 grams lighter than yours at 1776 grams. My Moses 91 cm weighs in 28 grams heavier than yours.

Yes you're right about it not being apples to apples cause there is a 1cm difference there.. The Moses mast I listed is indeed a 91cm and I got those measurements from grigorib.
He sent me this weight : Moses/Slingshot 91cm mast 3.3 lbs which is 1496 grams.

All the Phantasm parts I weighed myself and also the sabfoil 679 which I have here at home.
So yeah our scales might differ slightly and then maybe our masts are from different productions?

So the main weight difference is the front wing about 500 grams which is a lot.
Good thing is you can just mount the moses/sabfoil front wings on the phantasm and have a lighter setup.