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Down loop with transition

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Wave53
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Down loop with transition

Postby Wave53 » Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:02 am

I’m starting to use a down loop with my transitions (while foiling). Most of my loops are medium to large, with medium to large power associated with each. I’m trying for a short quick loop that doesn’t cover too much of the power zone. Can you suggest some tips to achieve this.
Right now I start by setting the kite at 12, initiate the turn (just bearing off and starting to head down wind), followed by looping the kite and following it through. I have the bar sheeted half to 3/4 of the way in and try and pull hard on the one side of the bar. This timing all depends on the wind strength, if it’s really light I’ll start the loop before the turn. I’m riding inflatable kites.

I guess I’m looking for tips on what bar inputs results in different kinds of down loops; slow and lazy, fast powerful, short and snappy, low in the window vs high up.

Thanks,

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby leeuwen » Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:42 am

In general making a tight loop at the edge of the window will create a loop with the least power.
To make the loop as tight as possible you might want to tune in some backstall on the bar and crank it all the way in when looping. Some kites will basically pivot in their place without much if any power especially if they are in their low end of the wind range where it’s easier to backstall them.

In higher winds you want to reduce apparent wind for the kite: the more powered you are the more downwind you want to go before initiating the loop. Especially in typical sub 25kn foil winds it should be very doable to outrun your kite by pointing the board downwind.
When the kite has little apparent wind you should be able to do the above backstalled loop without to much power.

For more power from the loops either increase the loop radius/do it more in the power zone and/or keep more line tension.

In general I would say the most important part is going the right amount of downwind before initiating the loop.
So for low wind turn kite before pointing your board downwind and in high winds first remove all power from the kite by going downwind.

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby IWantToFly » Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:51 am

Practicing on the beach will give you a lot more to go on than posting here because so much is going to depend on your kite, the size of your kite, the width of your bar, the length of your lines, the wind speed, etc. It really helped me with loops to actually take my kite and start playing on the beach to see how I can manipulate the power with different kinds of loops.

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:06 am

Don't sheet out like you do.

Keep bar tighter for a tight loop.

Like leeuwen says.

8) Peter

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby mati » Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:34 am

Especially when I am a little bit overpowered, I dow loop my kite leaving the bar completely sheeted out and graving just the floaty of the line I want to steer. This way I get a super gentle loop. I can't do downwind transitions reliably without looping, I go foiling with a 12m RPM that is far from ideal haha

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby Herman » Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:54 am

Only read this if you don’t mind a bit of a ramble………..

Arguably if you are trying for a tight loop you don’t actually need the down loop, but of course it is good fun and you actually need to be able to do a tight loop to moderate the power when required - part of the skill set if that makes sense. Also, arguably, the most effective downloop is actually done after you have carved accross the lines as this gives you the most acceleration onto the new tack. Once you consider all this you can see there are loads of factors involved, plus one of the most useful/powerful downloops is not much of a loop at all….. kite medium height sheeted in, sheet out with slight dive to run the kite to the very edge of the window, before kite stops sheet in and fishpole to get the kite to 180 so that it is now low and facing the new tack, level the bar and sheet out to get the kite moving and sheet in as it rips accross the window. Half tight, half open loop and not even a full loop!!!

Sometimes downloops are almost essential, for example if you’re kite is high and you need to turn in front of a wave that is jacking up in front of you the only way to get the kite to react fast enough is to pull an immediate down loop. In this case most of the power comes almost immediately from the kite diving straight into the power zone.

I am not deliberately trying to complicate things, it is just that there is no one answer, it is a whole skill set that has to be developed. One thing for sure is that you will not get a tight loop by pulling and carving towards the kite as you will lose line tension as you ride towards the kite. In practice the only time you want all the loop to be tight is when you want to kill the power - then do the loop high in the front of the window, fishpole and only carve towards the kite enough to control excessive line tension.

Just got to get out there and play with, initial window position, radius of carve, timing, degree of fishpole, speed of entry ( head up to slow entry and develop more line tension for tight loop if required)……………..

PS Fishpoling is not just about pulling, pushing with the slack hand can be very useful!!
Do you really want a complete tight loop, probably not??

I agree with IWantToFly’s beach practice suggestion but using a landboard and/or a bug can take your ability to analyse the downloop etc to an even higher level, if you have that facility, imho!

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby nothing2seehere » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:51 am

I'd suggest practicing a downloop transition with a twin tip to refine it. Its a useful skill that allows you to turn when in a lot of traffic. E.g. with another kiter just upwind and behind you so you can't raise your kite as you would in a normal transition.

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby TheJoe » Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:41 am

Pull in all the way to keep it tight. To get the tightest loop possible pull the leader line and you can pivot the kite on its wing tip but on small kites this is not really needed. I normally will not do it on anything smaller than a 12m and I really don't foil with a 12m. More so when I used to have a 17m and needed to save it from crashing in the water.

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby Herman » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:49 pm

Good point on pulling in extra leader if required. If you have headed off towards the kite and you have little line tension but want to tighten up the loop (perhaps kite is running out of room), use the slack hand to reach up and accross to pull in some leader for more tension. If you are heading towards the kite but still have plenty of tension with the looping hand pulling hard use the slack hand to push the bar into a true fishpole but be careful that you don’t hook the center lines with the bar horns.

Obviously you could also pull leader in the second case as well but you may well find you get better purchase with both hands on the bar. Hook ups with the bar is rare in my experience but you should be aware of it as you build your technique imho!!

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Re: Down loop with transition

Postby 1234567Simon » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:09 pm

Small Loop:
Just before the downloop Put extra tension on the lines by carving upwind a little.... Pull hard, pull the full 90 degrees.... Push away with the Other Hand, to be sure to steer all the way.... Keep Line tension....


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