UFO V2 - which size will work for me?

[Bartek_]

HI!

I'm 78kg, I often foil on lakes where the wind is unstable and gusty.
For now my setup is 633/483, but I'll soon switch to 699/430.
I use North Reach 7/11/13m for foiling. I can go with the 13 from about 9-10 knots.
Foiling is a low-wind activity for me. I usually only kite foil under ~16 knots, and even more under 12 knots. Low end performance is important for me, but I don't like foil kites.

My problems/questions:
1. There is a hole between 11m and 7m. I'd like to fill that with an UFO. Which size would be best for me? 8? 9? Maybe something else?
2. Would an 11m UFO V2 expand my wind range towards the low end? Will I have much more fun from riding it than from the Reach? Is this size a good idea for my weight/needs? If yes, would an 8m be a complimentary size to the 11m for me?

[Boston kiter]

I would get the 9m UFO and ditch the 11 and 13.

[Peter_Frank]

I can not answer regarding the UFO.

But something is odd, you are 78 kg (just like me) and on a 633 (1200 cm2) you should be able to ride from 7 knots with a 13 m2 LEI.
And you write 9-10?

Is it heavy and drops, or are you using a small board, or what is wrong?

Or do you use short lines?

I ride from 7 knots with a 12 m2 LEI and normal 30 m lines (always when kites 10 m2 and up), of course the kite needs to be light in order to hang - but power will be the same.

A 10 m2 goes fine in 8 knots and up.

And if you are at a lake, unless you have free wind stations in 10 m height, 9-10 knots will often be even more.

Difficult to recommend a size when you ride so much more powered - if that is the reason you need/want so much more wind

If your size versus wind was like many of us, I would get a 9 m2 LEI, it can ride from 9 knots and up.
So if the UFO has same power as other LEI's, a 9 would be fine.
I can not see any reason to have both an 11 and 13 though, extremely close regarding foil low end.

If you had a 12, for the lightest wind, and then a 9 UFO, it would be perfect I think.
But as Boston Kiter writes, you could also get a 9 from 9 knots, and forget about bigger kites - many do this
Unless you are using your kites for other boards and not only hydrofoil, then it gets complicated.

Peter

[airsail]

As Boston Kiter said, dump the 11 and 13, get a 9 UFO. The UFO sits deeper in the window catching more wind than a similar size strutted kite so you easily ride a smaller and lighter kite for any given wind strength.

[Peter_Frank]

Most forward sitting kites will have better low end for foil though.

So if the kite sits deeper if more draggy if low aspect, and not a more cambered profile (with worse range), it will sit deeper but have worse lowend.

Faster kites (speed) has much better lowend, so higher aspect kites better lowend and more range.
If profile is too flat, it wont work well for lowend though, but better upwind angles (in general)
Lower aspects turns faster and easier to handle, and drifts better - thats the advantages, so always tradeoffs.

As said, no experience with the UFO so simply talking in general terms.
The "felt" more power of some kites can truly be deceiving, as it is often opposite, small range and bad upwind and pulls like a truck all the time.
Not better lowend but usually easier to ride unless at the upper end.

Peter

[Onda]

I had the 9 m² UFO V1 and it was very poor for low wind, forget it. Under 10 kts it was hardly possible to keep it in the air, above 12 kts it pulled too much. Sold it after 3 sessions. Very slow also. I kept the 5 m² Peak4 - much better!
The 5 m² V1.1 is TOTALLY different. Many guys claim that the V2 UFOs are much better, particulary in the larger sizes.
I can foil with the 5 m² UFO from 14-15 kts easily (75 kg, Moses 633 or Alpine 1050 freeride/wave). It really shines from 17-22 kts. Replaces my 4 m² Peak4 now. Will get me the 4 and 7 m² UFOs as well in V2.

The crazy thing about the 5 m² UFO is:
It is very low aspect (looks odd in the air at first!)
It somehow sits very deep in the wind window when you send it down for waterstarting on your foil, generating a tremendous lot of pull when you most need it.
As soon as you´re up and riding, it flies very far forward into the wind window and generates hardly any lateral pull and the bar forces are super low (even less than the Peak).
It is really magic for foiling. I´ve never experiences such kite behaviour before. It really perfectly fits for foiling (and really weird for surfboard - I tried the 5 m² UFO once in 25-30 kts wind on my surfboard). You can waterstart in silly low wind and then when riding it feels like absolutely nothing in the air, almost like prone foil surfing

Another note on the UFO behaviour on a surfboard: The 5 m² UFO gave me the same "launching power" than my 7 m² Core Section1. But once up and driving, the power was completely gone. I had to wildly move the UFO constantly to stay on my board and riding. As soon as you move the UFO it generates a crazy lot of pull, but when you don´t move it, it generates almost no pull at all. Again, perfect for foiling.

The other magic of the UFO is that it has really ZERO flutter, no matter what you do. Even if fully sheeted out (60 cm throw) in overpowered conditions there is absolutely no flutter. Also not when you move the kite very fast and depower it while doing that. I have no idea how this is possible, but it really is so. The Peak is a "flutter nightmare" in comparison (but if you use the Peak in it´s suiting wind range, you can avoid flutter very easily by not sheeting out too much).

[Alysum]

Forget the UFO and no strut kites bigger than 7m.

I have the UFO 5m and 7m. I actually never use the 7m these days. If it's light I use a foil kite, the hyperlink 9m. That's all I need for my 78kg.
Foil kites will stay in the sky forever whilst you are busy trying to keep an LEI kite moving.
Relaunching an UFO 9m would be a nightmare.
Try a foil kite, you'll love it.

[Bartek_]

Forget the UFO and no strut kites bigger than 7m.

I have the UFO 5m and 7m. I actually never use the 7m these days. If it's light I use a foil kite, the hyperlink 9m. That's all I need for my 78kg.
Foil kites will stay in the sky forever whilst you are busy trying to keep an LEI kite moving.
Relaunching an UFO 9m would be a nightmare.
Try a foil kite, you'll love it.

I've been using Flysurfer Soul 12m and 15m for the last year and I don't like them after all. Waaaaaay to slow :/ Maybe a smaller one would be fun, but these two I did not fall in love with. Especially for foil, they pull way too much. The one thing I liked about them with the foil was the lift provided during maneuvers.

And all those small things about foil kites - getting them wet, bridle hassle, significant possibility of getting them tangled after hitting water and having to swim back... I just find all of that too annoying personally, and love the simplicity of an LEI kite. I'm absolutely not saying they are bad, they are amazing indeed. It's just maybe that I'm not ready yet

[Bartek_]

But something is odd, you are 78 kg (just like me) and on a 633 (1200 cm2) you should be able to ride from 7 knots with a 13 m2 LEI.
And you write 9-10?

It is entirely possible that my wind estimation skills are just off at this windspeeds We do not have a station at my spot, everything is covered in trees, the wind on the beach is nothing alike the one 50m in, and nothing alike the one 400m in. Hard to say

I can not see any reason to have both an 11 and 13 though, extremely close regarding foil low end.

If you had a 12, for the lightest wind, and then a 9 UFO, it would be perfect I think.
But as Boston Kiter writes, you could also get a 9 from 9 knots, and forget about bigger kites - many do this
Unless you are using your kites for other boards and not only hydrofoil, then it gets complicated.
Peter

Yes, that's the reason. My set is 5 kites (7/8/9/11/13) but it's optimized for 2 specific people using it concurrently (me and my partner). So whenever I need a 13 on a twintip, she goes on an 11. I go on 11, she can ride 9 and it works downwards like this (8m is a luxury I allowed myself for just because it's so much better than 7 or 9 for loops)!
But my 8 and 9 are the Orbits - not that much foil friendly kites, that's why I'm looking at the UFO.


After reading all your posts, what I'm reading is
"with UFO V2 9m you'll probably cover 90% of the conditions you want to ride in (7-16 knots) , including the ones where 11 and 13 Reach would normally serve you"
and
"11m UFO will be to big for your weight"

Have I misread anything?

[Jyoder]

My friend got a 9m UFO v2 thinking it could replace a 12m strutted kite for light wind foiling and then sold it because it could not. 75kg 1500cm2 foil.

I’ve flown large 10-17m strutless kites and they aren’t really very good in light wind. They stay up but are slow and fluttery when looped. If you’re skilled enough to keep a “heavy” strutted kite in the air in light wind, you might find a strutted kite to have a better power spike to get up and riding. Sure, it’s more of a pig to fly, but it works. A one-strut 11 or 12m is a good compromise.

A few causal-rider friends who didn’t want to use foil kites have had huge success with 12m one strut kites like Ghost, Alpha, Boxer, etc.