Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

[JakeFarley]

This may have been discussed previously, but I could not find a topic on this. Two of my friends say that a longer fuse gives greater stability. I currently wing with a 61cm/24" fuse, Slingshot Fwing Infinity 99 with mast in A position. Is it worth it to purchase a longrr fuse? Will I sacrifice turning ability?

[lifeinthehood]

I still consider myself a beginner kitefoiler but I think I have a decent grasp on the physics so I'll take a stab (haha) at this. Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm completely wrong here.

The answer is: sort of. Given that all other variables remain unchanged a longer fuse effectively means increasing the lever arm. If you're keeping the same stab, then it means the downward force it exerts will now be greater, resulting in greater lift for any given speed. But the fulcrum point is where your mast inserts into the fuse. That is now further from the stab, meaning the tail will require more force to counteract. So if you wanted to keep your foot over the mast-base connection, then you may need to widen your stance, or you may need to lean more over your front foot. But once you can find your balance point, it should be more "stable" in that it's harder for you to move the tail out of that position. IOW, it's more tolerant to you not being perfectly balance. This affects mostly pitch stability. Your second question pertains to roll stability, which I believe has much more to do with other characteristics of your front wing and stab rather than fuse length.

[consumer]

Check this described on the gong website for the fuselage extension

https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/ ... extension/

“ The rear extension to the fuselage increases the footing of the foil and gives it extra stability.

Ideal for a beginner since the porpoising effect is naturally attenuated by a longer fuselage which will increase the length of the oscillation accordingly. These stab extensions will allow you to progress even faster.

The foil is calmer. You have more time to react. And it responds less abruptly to your hazardous requests

These fuselage extensions will also have the effect of lengthening your curve radii and requiring a little more downforce. The foil will be generally less lively, depending on the extensions used. Perfect for more relaxed rides.”

[TritonFoils]

Just saw it off and get with the monowing program. Everyone will be riding “fuseless” in the next three to five years.

[consumer]

Just saw it off and get with the monowing program. Everyone will be riding “fuseless” in the next three to five years.

Are you guys working a larger version for winging ?

[leeuwen]

Just saw it off and get with the monowing program.

I don’t think it’s nice to hi-jack this thread to promote your own product (and this is sadly not the first time) without adding anything to the conversation.
Especially since the the product isn’t what I would call beginner friendly (yes I have ridden the triton) and the user seems to be looking for a more stable riding option.

[Peter_Frank]

This may have been discussed previously, but I could not find a topic on this. Two of my friends say that a longer fuse gives greater stability. I currently wing with a 61cm/24" fuse, Slingshot Fwing Infinity 99 with mast in A position. Is it worth it to purchase a longrr fuse? Will I sacrifice turning ability?

Yes, a longer fuselage means more stability.

Why not have a shorter fuselage and a bigger rear wing?

This will also lead to more stability, so what the difference?

If we compare to gliders and aerobatic planes, one could say that for gliders you want the longest possible fuselage (aimed in the flight direction so curved a tad because of the downwash) and the smallest possible stab - to get good stability and the least drag.

If you have a shorter fuselage and a bigger stab, you can also get more stability, but not fully the same.
On gliders/planes it will be more acrobatic though, turn and change aoa faster.

The same goes for hydrofoils, but with the exception that you dont control using the stab, but changing weight distribution, so not fully the same as a big elevator on a short fuse where it has a radical higher agility effect on planes.
It will be toned down a tad on hydrofoils, but still more lively than a longer fuselage.

Shorter fuse bigger stab gives okay stability, and a bit more lively foil
Shorter fuse small stab gives the highest level of agility but the least stable.
Longer fuse big stab is the most stable but the least lively.
Longer fuse small stab gives okay stability and the least drag.

In rough terms that is

But if you always turn back and forth and change aoa, playing around, a longer fuselage will actually increase drag while maneuvering, so it is at a cost, but still more stable.

Racefoils will have a reasonably long fuselage (but not overly long/draggy) and the smallest thinnest stab, to obtain the lowest drag and okay stability - really important for max control and max speed.

Peter

[leeuwen]

+1 for changing stab assuming you can buy something more stable then you currently own.
I have a big surf stab and a race stab and the difference is night and day.
When I learn something new I switch to the more stable stab option and for waves/jumping/high speed riding I take the small stab.

If you ever need to travel light having another stab rather then a big and heavy fuselage is a huge benefit.
eg currently on holiday that required flying and I brought 2 stabs while I would never consider bringing two fuselages.

[azoele]

This may have been discussed previously, but I could not find a topic on this. Two of my friends say that a longer fuse gives greater stability. I currently wing with a 61cm/24" fuse, Slingshot Fwing Infinity 99 with mast in A position. Is it worth it to purchase a longrr fuse? Will I sacrifice turning ability?

If my understanding is correct, you will gain pitch stability, that is it will be more difficult to point the nose of the board up and down.
So, a more stable ride when it comes to your foiling height.

What you will probably also cause with a longer fuse (or a bigger stabilizer, as was suggested to you in the thread), is less ease of turn, as your stabilizer will have more leverage to resist doing tighter turns.

There is a balance for each of us, changing as we move along our own progression curves.
A too locked in setup at the rear will feel like navigating in jelly to an advanced rider.
A too loose setup will be punitive for a beginner.

If you feel the need, I'd simply go with what is cheaper/easier to resell between a bigger stabilizer and a longer fuselage.

But be assured: stabilizer has a ridiculous effect on riding.

I recently moved from a 220 sq cm stabilizer to a new 140 ultrathin one, and at first I needed to adapt as I was going and up and down again almost like a beginner, so sensitive to pitch it is
Now, it's just heaps of fun

Good luck and have plenty of fun

[TritonFoils]

Just saw it off and get with the monowing program.

I don’t think it’s nice to hi-jack this thread to promote your own product (and this is sadly not the first time) without adding anything to the conversation.
Especially since the the product isn’t what I would call beginner friendly (yes I have ridden the triton) and the user seems to be looking for a more stable riding option.

Fair enough. How about this for a contribution:

1. The longer the fuse the less fun foiling

I used to own the original alpine set up (no one talks about alpine anymore? Do they still exist?) and it had one of the longest fuses of any foil. It was like riding on a railway track and about as fun.

2. Ride as small a fuse as your skill level allows

With bigger front wings a beginner can ride a short fuse easily and enjoy a much more lively and dynamic ride. Recommending anything else is to steer newbies in the wrong direction.

3. Yes a beginner can learn foiling on a T1

Board choice is arguably as important as fuse length when learning in terms of stability. We have had now multiple newbies learn to foil on the T1 on 110/120cm boards with footstaps.

And yes we have something very neat coming out for wingers this Spring in a monofoil format and yes a newbie winger could learn on this set up - it is that stable with lovely zero drag feeling you only get with a monofoil fuseless.

Sorry couldn’t resist. Please feel free to return to your discussion about how to make kite foiling as boring as possible by encouraging riding with long fuses. And we ask ourselves as a sport why winging is eating kiting’s lunch?