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Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

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Jyoder
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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:17 pm

TritonFoils wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:58 pm


Sorry couldn’t resist. Please feel free to return to your discussion about how to make kite foiling as boring as possible by encouraging riding with long fuses. And we ask ourselves as a sport why winging is eating kiting’s lunch?
1. The OP asked about Infinity 99 foil and winging, not kiting. Did you even pay attention? Or just look to self-promote?
2. OP is asking about increasing stability on an already big and stable foil, so obviously does not want to make it harder to ride by jumping to stabless or short fuse.
3. Windfoilers use this foil a lot and have super long fuses so the slingshot hover glide platform does have this option and gear available to experiment with without anything custom or modified.

4. Your shameless self-promotion really leaves a bad taste and I hope you stop soon.

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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:27 pm

JakeFarley wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:15 am
This may have been discussed previously, but I could not find a topic on this. Two of my friends say that a longer fuse gives greater stability. I currently wing with a 61cm/24" fuse, Slingshot Fwing Infinity 99 with mast in A position. Is it worth it to purchase a longrr fuse? Will I sacrifice turning ability?


Are you using the 42 or 48cm stabilizer on the infinity 99?

I learned to wingfoil on the Infinity 84 with 48cm stabilizer and it was very stable but the bigger 99 wing might feel a bit pitchy as that just tends to be the case with 2000+cm2 wings. If you’re on 42cm stab, then even more so.

Infinity 99 with 48cm stab is a good setup. Just stick with it. If you have the fuse with multiple holes, Try mast in middle position behind the front wing, not “in” the front wing.

Note the 48cm stab goes underneath the fuse with wingtips pointed down while the 42cm stab goes on top with wingtips pointed up.
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Matty V
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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby Matty V » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:38 pm

TritonFoils wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:58 pm
leeuwen wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:34 am
TritonFoils wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:40 am
Just saw it off and get with the monowing program.
I don’t think it’s nice to hi-jack this thread to promote your own product (and this is sadly not the first time) without adding anything to the conversation.
Especially since the the product isn’t what I would call beginner friendly (yes I have ridden the triton) and the user seems to be looking for a more stable riding option.
Fair enough. How about this for a contribution:

1. The longer the fuse the less fun foiling

I used to own the original alpine set up (no one talks about alpine anymore? Do they still exist?) and it had one of the longest fuses of any foil. It was like riding on a railway track and about as fun.

2. Ride as small a fuse as your skill level allows

With bigger front wings a beginner can ride a short fuse easily and enjoy a much more lively and dynamic ride. Recommending anything else is to steer newbies in the wrong direction.

3. Yes a beginner can learn foiling on a T1

Board choice is arguably as important as fuse length when learning in terms of stability. We have had now multiple newbies learn to foil on the T1 on 110/120cm boards with footstaps.

And yes we have something very neat coming out for wingers this Spring in a monofoil format and yes a newbie winger could learn on this set up - it is that stable with lovely zero drag feeling you only get with a monofoil fuseless.

Sorry couldn’t resist. Please feel free to return to your discussion about how to make kite foiling as boring as possible by encouraging riding with long fuses. And we ask ourselves as a sport why winging is eating kiting’s lunch?

Classy..

Slags off a brand that was in the sport long before you, likely they don’t have a clue who you are never mind wondering if you are still going

Secondly don’t be sat here talking about winging eating kitings lunch if you about to bring out wing gear. It looks a ‘little’ two faced
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airsail (Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:43 am)
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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby leeuwen » Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:26 pm

TritonFoils wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:58 pm

Fair enough. How about this for a contribution:

1. The longer the fuse the less fun foiling

I used to own the original alpine set up (no one talks about alpine anymore? Do they still exist?) and it had one of the longest fuses of any foil. It was like riding on a railway track and about as fun.

I disagree with stable == boring.
Stable means learning a lot of new things goes quicker.
eg the last few weeks I have been learning to sit on the board. I made the mistake of starting with the 80cm mast instead of my slower “boring” 100cm mast and with the big stabilizer.
It’s like half as difficult on the longer mast and again half as difficult with a big stab so progression is a LOT quicker.

Same thing will be true if you want to learn footswitches.
IMHO the ability to switch between totally differently behaving foils just by modifying the stabilizer depending on what you want is a huge benefit.

Don’t forget a lot of people never get past the skill level of going left/right and doing a jibe. Giving them a less stable platform just makes their lives on the foil more difficult.
IMHO that’s a way more likely reason people will quit.
If they do get to the skill point where they want a more lively foil I am sure they will find the many options out there including small stabs, shorter masts and monofoils.
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JakeFarley (Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:40 pm)
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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby JakeFarley » Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:39 pm

Thanks to all for your contributions and great advice/insight. Peter's advice to try a different stab is something I had not thought of before and may consider buying a bigger one (my current stab is 48cm - not sure what the surface area is).

But for now I will continue to use the short fuse. It is a bit lively at times but I have been getting used to that. I definitely want to upgrade my kit once I get more skilled.

@Triton - you probably thought my post was related to kite foiling whereas my equipment is for wing foiling. As Consumer asked - are you considering making a larger foil for winging?

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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:34 pm

JakeFarley wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:39 pm
Thanks to all for your contributions and great advice/insight. Peter's advice to try a different stab is something I had not thought of before and may consider buying a bigger one (my current stab is 48cm - not sure what the surface area is).

But for now I will continue to use the short fuse. It is a bit lively at times but I have been getting used to that. I definitely want to upgrade my kit once I get more skilled.

Try moving the mast to the B position for more stability, if your board can tolerate having the mast back farther to compensate.
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JakeFarley (Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:24 pm)
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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby TritonFoils » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:39 pm

Yes we have something very neat in the works for wingers re: a monofoil solution. Lots of prototyping and testing in 2022 and very happy with the result. Coming this Spring with news we will share on the forum likely next month re: specs, ride, pricing. Its been a fascinating learning experience re: the different lift characteristics you need for a winging foil vs. kiting. Much greater variance than first assumed. The result again is super frictionless ride for winging that you only get with a monofoil. If you are interested in getting the latest news on our winging monofoil go to our website and sign up for the newsletter. Thanks for your interest in riding "stabless"! :)

https://www.tritonfoils.com/contact.html

Rudy @TritonFoils
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JakeFarley (Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:25 pm)
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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby JakeFarley » Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:24 pm

Jyoder wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:34 pm
JakeFarley wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:39 pm
Thanks to all for your contributions and great advice/insight. Peter's advice to try a different stab is something I had not thought of before and may consider buying a bigger one (my current stab is 48cm - not sure what the surface area is).

But for now I will continue to use the short fuse. It is a bit lively at times but I have been getting used to that.. I definitely want to upgrade my kit once I get more skilled.

Try moving the mast to the B position for more stability, if your board can tolerate having the mast back farther to compensate.
I tried the B position for my first 2-3 sessions last year with the mast back but opted for A with mast forward. Not sure why. I will try the B position tomorrow as good winds are forecasted. Thanks.

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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:29 pm

Jake, kitefoil and wingfoil use the same wing sizes, unless you are a beginner.

Major difference is, for kitefoil many like the low aspect wings, really fast turning and fun and wont stall when tweaked in waves, and you dont need glide really, more than sufficient even with a tiny kite.

For wingfoil, when learning, big area low aspect wings works for the very first tries.
But it will soon become useless, way too big and draggy, and you will eventually not be able to ride in less wind.
Area matters, but a thinner low drag wing is essential.

When learned, many use smaller wingfoil wings than kitefoil wings, or at least the same size - just two very different wings as you want higher aspect foilwings for wingfoiling, no doubt at all.

If you dont wanna change wings several times during your learning period, you can get a higher aspect (not high aspect, too difficult) foilwing now, and use it for lightwind later.
Beginner foilwings are not that good for light wind later, usually too thick and draggy and absolutely no glide.

And when you experience, get one more foilwing, sized 1000 to 1200 cm2 if average weight, for more wind and better glide on the waves.

I understand why many thought it was kitefoiling, as you posted it in the hydrofoil forum and not in the wingfoil forum.

Foilwings totally different as said, but sizes the same, and fuselage/stab stability is exactly the same.

Sorry, you didnt ask about frontwings, but you asked to it in an earlier post.

8) Peter
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JakeFarley (Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:12 am)
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Re: Longer Fuselage = Greater Stability?

Postby grtlakes » Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:51 pm

Tough crowd Triton.


Keep up the great work and innovation.


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