Sabfoil 699 vs 799 for kite foil

[Bartek_]

I'm choosing between 699 vs 799 as my main freeride wing for kitefoiling. My parameters:

- 78kg
- kiting in lakes with gusty winds, mostly 8-16 knots
- LEI kites (9/11/13)
- I'm not an expert foiler (recently started succeeding with upwind tacks. Gybes and footswaps already unlocked). Still a long way of progress to go.
- Not interested in racing. I like the low-wind, pure freeride aspect of kitefoiling. I enjoy tricks like 360, sitting on the board, gybes, tacks etc.
- Flat water. Veeeeery rare occasions to ride waves (1 in 50 sessions)
- After spending my first year of kitefoiling on IC6 V3, I find the 633 Onda quite unstable. I'd love to have something in between these two.

I will use this with the M83, F703, S430 and B14 board (because I will also share this setup with WL1350 for pumping).

Which one would you recommend? Or maybe something entirely different? I don't really have an opportunity to test them right now :/

In the near future, I also plan to get into Wingfoil and share this setup with possibly a dedicated Wing front wing.

[leeuwen]

I will leave it up to people who tried the 799 on kite to give their opinion but it *seems* like a bit to big unless you are a heavy boy.

I ride the 699 at similar weight which I like and I don’t think it’s a difficult wing.
You can ride that wing extremely slowly / has very early lift which IMHO makes it beginner friendly.
I honestly don’t find the difference that big between the 633 and 699 though if I just switch the front wing.
Big pro over 633: the 699 will sink rather then sit on its side, not sure what the 799 will do but these days it would be a dealbreaker for me if it floats.

Stability in my experience is way more dependent on the rest of the setup:
Stabilizer, fuselage length and mast length.
Eg I own de 83 and 103 mast and it’s in a different world in regards to stability. With the 103 a lot slower/twitchy.
Same goes when switching stabilizers, I have ridden the 699 with the S483 and a race stab and you get a totally different feeling.
All these changes are a lot bigger then when I switch between 633 and 699.

Don’t know what setup you had for IC6 and 633 you tried but the lack of stability likely isn’t (just) front wing related…

[jakemoore]

799 is a brilliant wing for kitefoil. I find the low end speed and top end speed very similar between 799 and 699. There is a little more roll stability with 799 and overall I would say its a great easy going wing for kite foil and would also cross over as a medium wind+ foil to ride with the wing.

I only rode the 699 twice and I think it had a noisy stabilo that cast an unfair doubt for me on the wing. But the 799 is so great I never looked back. Consider that the 699 has only a slightly larger span but also a smaller overall size to the 633.

With 1350 and 799 you have the start for a perfect wing foil setup.

[Schietwedder]

I also own the 633 and 799. Have to agree its also really dependend on the stab you couple the wing with.

I ride both with smaller 425 stab, tried also the 370.
The 370 was a bit too pitch sensitive for me for now being also intermediate foiler same as OP describes.
It surely turned like a dream with the 370 but it lacked a bit of that riding along without thinking I enjoy after work.
I might go down to the 370 though next season, or maybe something in-between the both.

That being said the 799 has way more glide than the 633 and is an excellent low to medium wind kite foil.
From 20 sessions 19 times I use the 799 over the 633.
Only if the waves get bigger or short and steep the 633 is more fun (for my ability) and does have a tighter turn, this nice stop turn and go, and does not have so much lift that you almost can't keep it in the water (with 70kgs).
Other than that for flat water and mostly riding underpowered the 799 is a dream. What you will notice most is the better pumpability and the endless glide through lulls or gybes, you don't need to rely on so much consistent kite pull, it's no problem if the wind is gone for a few seconds (as long as your kite stays up)
That might come in handy riding on a lake. So the practical usable low end is greater by the glide especially on shifty conditions and with a long mast. In a straight line on perfect laminar wind conditions both wings have about the same min and max speed, maybe the 633 is slightly higher in top speed but not much.

My swimming home has drastically reduced with the 799 as you have more time to save a messed up maneuver.
The 799 goes way better upwind than 633; same ish angles as with my 645 race foil but of course way slower.

[Peter_Frank]

Go with the 799, not in doubt.

633 is the most perfect and easy for kitefoil, and fun for what you want, "forever" after you get better.

But it is useless for wingfoil.
Possible to learn on yes, but it will glide shamelessly bad - and this is what wingfoil is all about after you have learned.

799 has the perfect size so easy to learn and get good at kitefoiling, and you will love riding waves kitefoiling with this one too.
Aspect ratio 5.8 meaning it will glide well but not be too difficult for wingfoil, and turn fine.
A pretty perfect allround wing 1100 cm2 for an experienced average weight wingfoiler IMO

You might have to borrow/buy a tad bigger front wing, for initial wingfoil learning though - but you can try with the 799, and you will end up on this one I am certain.

Peter

[rnelias]

Following...

I'm in the same situation Bartek_ described. Intermediate foiler that can do foot switches and simple tricks but can't do tacks yet. I'm 72kg and learned with a front wing that is a 633 clone. After learning I thought that wing too slow and got a F-One v1 HF with a pair of wings IC6 850 and Mirage 650. I love the IC6 850. It has an amazing low/high ends while the Mirage 650 don't glide very well and tends to stall too soon. It's also requires more speed during starts than the 850. In other words, I'm now looking for an IC6 850 replacement. This F-One wing has an amazing design but has a silly construction flaw. It's made with carbon injection pressed with an aluminum socket. This socket starts to oxidize and cracks the wing internally

I also don't have the chance to try a bunch of wings. My options would be: 1). A Sabfoil more "all-around" front wing, as I already have a M101/W637/S420, that I don't use very often, 2). A complete new set, and was considering North Sonar CF95 with a MA850 wing or 3). Get used to the Mirage 650 as the IC6 850 is showing that it'll break soon.

I know area alone doesn't tell too much about wing's feeling but 1100cm^2 seems a little bit big for lighter guys. I'm assuming the W799 has a very thin profile, otherwise, it would be slow/draggy like the 633.

My local sabfoil seller also suggested me W695 and W590 as freeride options.

[jakemoore]

I'm assuming the W799 has a very thin profile, otherwise, it would be slow/draggy like the 633.

Both 699 and 799 have a pretty thick profile. I would describe the ride as mellow on the kitefoil. Neither will win any races on kite or wing foil. Very fun wings for small waves but too slow for chest high waves. Amazing lift at a crawl and enough speed to be fun.

[Qiter]

I echo the above: The 799 is a perfect all-round wing for kitefoiling.
Its turning ability depends on the stabiliser, with the 399 it is rather twitchy (too much for me), with the 483 its VERY stable (also too stable for me), so any of the 425, 430 is a good compromise. I have to shim the stabiliser down by 1mm, as the 799 has a lot of lift.

My top speeds are around 40-45km/h with a single strut kite that is not build for speed, I am sure I could go a bit faster with a more suitable kite (but I am not really into speed..).
I have virtually stopped riding other front wings (although I have a few other sabfoils), as the 799 really covers the entire range of what I am doing.
I also use it for winging if the wind gets above 16 kn..(I am 92kg).

Definitely worth it!

[rnelias]

Both 699 and 799 have a pretty thick profile. I would describe the ride as mellow on the kitefoil. Neither will win any races on kite or wing foil. Very fun wings for small waves but too slow for chest high waves. Amazing lift at a crawl and enough speed to be fun.

Thus, I'm assuming 699 neither 799 would be a good replacement for the IC6/850 I've described. Maybe 695 or 590 as I never surf with foil. My goal is cover the largest distance in the shortest time, not necessarily racing if you know what I mean . "Fast freeride" would be a good definition and if the wing has I good low end it would be perfect

[sonny2727]

Both 699 and 799 have a pretty thick profile. I would describe the ride as mellow on the kitefoil. Neither will win any races on kite or wing foil. Very fun wings for small waves but too slow for chest high waves. Amazing lift at a crawl and enough speed to be fun.

Thus, I'm assuming 699 neither 799 would be a good replacement for the IC6/850 I've described. Maybe 695 or 590 as I never surf with foil. My goal is cover the largest distance in the shortest time, not necessarily racing if you know what I mean . "Fast freeride" would be a good definition and if the wing has I good low end it would be perfect

W800 is what you are need