Upgrade or Update

[windybrit]

I have a Cabrinha Highrise Carve foil (2020) with their Secret agent board. It's the second kitefoil setup I have owned it's let me progress reasonably given my time constraints. I am aware that the setup isn't light (85cm mast and top plate weigh 2.3 kg), and sometimes when i fall the board floats mast down with just the board tip in the air, this then necessitates a maddening amount of body dragging as the board is reluctant to drift downwind. A friend, decent foiler, has also opined that the tail heavy setup will make it hard for me to learn to flying footswitches as it will be prone to sinking as I lift my rear foot ... I wonder if anyone knows of a 3rd party carbon mast for this setup (a Moses carbon mast is about 600 grams lighter) or wether I need to bite the bullet, donate a kidney, and purchase a new setup ? All thoughts gratefully appreciated. TIA.

[Boston kiter]

I have a Cabrinha Highrise Carve foil (2020) with their Secret agent board. It's the second kitefoil setup I have owned it's let me progress reasonably given my time constraints. I am aware that the setup isn't light (85cm mast and top plate weigh 2.3 kg), and sometimes when i fall the board floats mast down with just the board tip in the air, this then necessitates a maddening amount of body dragging as the board is reluctant to drift downwind. A friend, decent foiler, has also opined that the tail heavy setup will make it hard for me to learn to flying footswitches as it will be prone to sinking as I lift my rear foot ... I wonder if anyone knows of a 3rd party carbon mast for this setup (a Moses carbon mast is about 600 grams lighter) or wether I need to bite the bullet, donate a kidney, and purchase a new setup ? All thoughts gratefully appreciated. TIA.

Thats a great first foil but heavy and slow. See if Real still has any Lift 170 classics left. $300 for a fantastic foil.

[windybrit]

Thanks......yes heavy for sure , slow I don't mind within reason as log as the fact doesn't slow my progression. Last week I had a look at a Lift foil, it seemed very nicely made.... how robust are they?

[Peter_Frank]

Sorry, but this doesnt make sense to me...

If the mast sinks, the whole setup will drift downwind and you can retrieve the board/foil.

Much worse if it floats on its side - can be really difficult to get back to the foil

Regarding foot switches, I will say it doesnt matter at all if heavy or light - it will NOT sink while switching feet, actually one could say it will be more stable if heavier.

The advantages, besides jumping and lifting the foil in jumps, is it wont sink as fast when waterstarting - in particular helpful when strapless.
Here the timing can be really difficult with a heavy mast sinking fast.
No problem if straps.
And then a light foil is easier to carry of course.
Apart from the fact it just FEELS good when on the water, light and nimble

But no reason to diss a heavy foil, it will work just fine - so unless you know exactly which foil you want, and you want to pay for the luxury, a heavy foil works great also for learning footswitches.

No, it does not sink while you switch feet, here weight doesnt matter whatsoever

Peter

[junebug]

Thanks......yes heavy for sure , slow I don't mind within reason as log as the fact doesn't slow my progression. Last week I had a look at a Lift foil, it seemed very nicely made.... how robust are they?

I don't have any experience with your specific foil, but there is no reason a heavy foil should impede your foot switches. In fact, it might help a little insofar as it will arguably be less responsive to the changes in weight distribution that come with foot switches. I learned foot switches on an old Liquid Force rocket foil. It took me a while, but that was more due to a lack of talent that the weight of the setup.

That said, Lift foils are awesome. If I could do it all over again I would have gotten a Lift foil as soon as I was up and riding confidently. They are so smooth, and very strong. I have hit plenty of sandbars riding in waves and never damaged a wing.

[nixmatters]

I had the Carve and loved it back then. The weight was never an issue for me, but the drag became at some point.
Then I tested the Varial S - much lower drag, higher top end and the same carvy feel. The shape (outline) of the wing is identical to Carve, but it's thinner. If you can find one cheap, you won't regret.

[IWantToFly]

I agree with Peter. The reasons you have stated don’t make sense to switch. Sinkers drift downwind better than side-floaters. Wide(ish) heavy board on the water will be fine for foot switches (which I’m just learning, too).

I had the same setup with the double agent of the vintage ~2018. Last summer I switched to the Lift 170 (the same one that was on sale mentioned earlier), a Project Cedrus mast, and a Kanaha Shapes board. I made great progress on my Cabrinha setup but I loved the upgrade.

[windybrit]

Sorry, but this doesnt make sense to me...

If the mast sinks, the whole setup will drift downwind and you can retrieve the board/foil.

Much worse if it floats on its side - can be really difficult to get back to the foil

Regarding foot switches, I will say it doesnt matter at all if heavy or light - it will NOT sink while switching feet, actually one could say it will be more stable if heavier.

The advantages, besides jumping and lifting the foil in jumps, is it wont sink as fast when waterstarting - in particular helpful when strapless.
Here the timing can be really difficult with a heavy mast sinking fast.
No problem if straps.
And then a light foil is easier to carry of course.
Apart from the fact it just FEELS good when on the water, light and nimble

But no reason to diss a heavy foil, it will work just fine - so unless you know exactly which foil you want, and you want to pay for the luxury, a heavy foil works great also for learning footswitches.

No, it does not sink while you switch feet, here weight doesnt matter whatsoever

Peter

To explain ........ more often than not when I come off the foil it does not float flat, rather it goes tail down vertically with about 20 cm of the nose point upwards (the mast is more or less horizontal under the water) it does not drift downwind ......... I am quite capable of body dragging back to it but this phenomena is a royal pain. The foil mast is watertight, I checked.
To water start I push the board onto it's edge with my back hand and back knee then plant my feet and allow a bit of kite power drift to keep my position....... it's honestly not a problem.
I do not get enough water time to progress as I'd like, just need to to put the practice time in when I can and be patient........ cheaper too
I would like to see if I could find a small HI:Rise Varial wing though

[merl]

To explain ........ more often than not when I come off the foil it does not float flat, rather it goes tail down vertically with about 20 cm of the nose point upwards (the mast is more or less horizontal under the water) it does not drift downwind ......... I am quite capable of body dragging back to it but this phenomena is a royal pain. The foil mast is watertight, I checked.

That sounds unusual - perhaps a combination of a heavy mast and a floaty wing.

Here is a suggestion that might make it behave better. Get hold of a foam roll

Either a half or cut a whole one down the middle. Cut it to the width of the tail of the board.

Now find a way to attach it to the deck at tail of the board. (I did this on an 85cm travel board by gluing it to a bit of thin plywood and bolting it to the rear holes). This of course might be tricky depending on the board and where your feet need to be when you ride.

[Peter_Frank]

To explain ........ more often than not when I come off the foil it does not float flat, rather it goes tail down vertically with about 20 cm of the nose point upwards (the mast is more or less horizontal under the water) it does not drift downwind ......... I am quite capable of body dragging back to it but this phenomena is a royal pain. The foil mast is watertight, I checked.
To water start I push the board onto it's edge with my back hand and back knee then plant my feet and allow a bit of kite power drift to keep my position....... it's honestly not a problem.

Hmmm, odd, and amazing, have never seen this phenomenon before?

I dont know what a Secret Agent board is, do you mean a Special Agent?
Which size?

I know (assume if the Cab line) it is small and thin, yes, so the quick picture I made has a lot smaller board, I know, but for the principles.

You are saying, if you leave your foil in the water, it behaves like this, to the right:

If so, what you say makes sense indeed, drifts really slow.
Have a hard time believing it can be THAT radical?

Anyways, yes you can get a light carbon foil instead, or you could be a thicker board - if above really IS your problem.

But footswitches wont be easier on a lighter foil.

Peter