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Long mast - is it a con?

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Onda
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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Onda » Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:10 am

I´ve been riding 91 / 80 / 95 cm masts. Each with very different foils.
I don´t feel any major differences, it is more a question of adjusting to the mast lengths.
Longer mast is definitely better for wave riding / crossing large chop. And helps for tight turns / cutbacks to avoid breaching. With a 80 cm mast I have to ride highly concious and very low to avoid breaching during the turn.
However, with the f-one SK8 breaching is no issue any more. You simply don´t feel any difference when a wingtip sticks out of the water. Incredible!

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Nak » Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:59 pm

I ride 72, 92, and 102 length masts depending on how shallow the water is or how devoid of chop it is. Small waves with no chop the 72 allows me to get the wing into the wave energy easier--this is a pretty rare event. (Usually it means I'm wake foiling.) More likely, I'm on the 72 because of shallow water that makes anything longer difficult to ride. The 92 I use in a bit deeper water, but still shallow. Other than that I'm on my 102. I much, much prefer the 102 except in the above situations. It's length allows me to make much more aggressive turns without worrying about breaching. The 102 allows me to "explore the vertical" as well--that is I alter ride height continuously as I make linked turns. This is really, really fun for me. It feels like I'm hitting deep powder moguls, LOL. As I edge into the turn I dive down, popping up as I come out of the turn. You just can't have the same feeling on a 92 or shorter mast. TBH, every time I ride the 92 because of shallow water, I miss the 102 immensely. The 102 obviously is far better in chop, it's easier to go faster, it gives a smoother ride because the wing is further away from surface turbulence. You'd think a 92 would be faster to turn--but it isn't for me. While it's shorter length makes for a shorter edge to edge distance, the 102 more than makes up for that with the ability to make more aggressive turns. Coming down big swell in Baja--which bottoms out fast back up into the next wave--the 102 makes it much easier to ride fast down the wave and get back up. For that matter, the 102 allows me to control bigger, steeper swell as I can put the wing deeper in the water and further away from the wave energy if I'm getting too fast for my skill. Nothing is more fun than a 30+ Norte and big swell on a 102 mast and a 3m UFO. (Well, OK, fast mover jets were more fun, but the USAF doesn't let me do that anymore. :lol: :lol: )

TLDR: I rode a 92 for years, one ride on the 102 converted me because it's just that much more fun on the 102.

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Nak » Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:09 pm

Onda wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:10 am
However, with the f-one SK8 breaching is no issue any more. You simply don´t feel any difference when a wingtip sticks out of the water. Incredible!
I know this is breaching, but to me one of the advantages of the 102 is to avoid much larger breeches--like when your whole lower comes out of the water coming across the top of a wave with a sharp peak. Or trying to keep up your speed in choppy water. Real chop, not ankle biters. I'm sure that the SK8 is a great wing, but wingtip breaches aren't the breaches that drive a lot of folks to longer masts, at least around here where what most people call chop looks like glass to us! :D

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:31 pm

Ride what you like. Try a lot of different stuff if you can, but don’t put too much emphasis on first impressions, as it takes some time to get comfortable on different setups and really understand the benefits.

I recommend any kitefoiler at least get comfortable with an 85-90cm mast, as that’s the most common size if you ever end up demoing another’s foil.

As you push toward extremes for a certain riding style or conditions, you gain some and lose some. Horses for courses. There’s no one best setup for everything, but there’s probably a best foil for your particular style+progression+location. For me it’s a 111 mast and 500cm2 freerace foil. I just picked up a 90cm mast low aspect foil and that’s fun too when I’m in the mood for something different. 90cm feels super short coming from 111cm. 😂

Just ride what gives you stoke and explore and change as the stoke leads you. 🙏
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Wolf of Ainsdale
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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Wolf of Ainsdale » Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:37 pm

Preach brother!

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Slappysan » Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:58 am

Shorter masts allow you to go hunt waves in the shallows easier and safer. 75 cm is my pref.

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby fernmanus » Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:40 am

Wolf of Ainsdale,

I have the 1150. It is a fun wing. Before you look at different mast lengths, consider trying different front wings. The Sonar Mid-Aspect wings are super fun. The 1050 or 850MA are worth checking out.

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Wolf of Ainsdale » Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:32 pm

Quick question. Are the smaller wings quicker once you are up and riding but need more pull to waterstart? How does their maneuverability compare?

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby grigorib » Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:03 pm

Wolf of Ainsdale wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:06 pm
New to foiling. Currently on 72cm carbon north sonar mast and am doing my first transitions successfully. I've read that you should upgrade to a longer foil but a couple of the best foilers round here reckon it's a bit of a myth. They say just get better on your small mast. They also say a short mast is more fun as its more skatey with a better direct feel. Re swell and breaching they just say get better.

With the 95cm carbon mast retailing at 750, I need to be sure that it would be a good move. What do you reckon?
If you can afford a Lamborghini and some guys are telling you the Mini Cooper makes a fun race car it would be a good opinion too. And what’s wrong with owning both?
I have to have a short mast for riding shallow waters. If you decide to build an ultimate travel pack fitting into check-in limitations, with 80cm board or so - the short mast would be also helping.
Some people like riding waves on a short mast, yet flying low above water surface and not being able to edge like mad wouldn’t be my cup of tea.
Wolf of Ainsdale wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:32 pm
Quick question. Are the smaller wings quicker once you are up and riding but need more pull to waterstart? How does their maneuverability compare?
Thinner wings are faster and usually smaller wings are thinner. On a large 1200 cm² you can almost stop in the jibe and that’s part of maneuverability too. Flying fast on a small race wing you actually lose maneuverability, yet the need for speed is addictive. They need more speed to fly and keep flying, but folks who ride small wings only learn to go slow on them too, it just takes some extra fines.

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Re: Long mast - is it a con?

Postby Qiter » Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:05 pm

Long mast all the way! If you own a 72cm, just try a 100cm mast and you will see a MASSIVE difference for all the reasons outlined in the previous posts. You will even feel a difference between 90 and 100 cm..
Worth it!
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