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can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

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vitaum
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can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby vitaum » Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:02 pm

Hi guys! I got into a big discussion here about light wind kites for foiling.
The question is simple: can the new state of the art material kites (juice dlab, neo dlab, evo dlab) be better than one strut kites (boxer, alpha, contra, mono) for low end foiling? Not talking about scratching the lowest bottom ever, but as a whole, are those new materiais enough to make them better kites for foiling?
The wind range is a lot bigger on 3 strut, no discussions... but what about the rest? I got the weights and it seems that the one strut kites are still lighter, so that makes the one strut better for drifting. But what about everything else?
Some of the guys even said that the SLS versions are enough, to get a big neo sls and be happy...
Thanks a lot!
(I am a beginner foiler and currently own a contra 9m and 11m and like them a lot. I didn´t like the slingshot ufo strutless, and where I kite, foil kites are a no go, unfortunately)

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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby Jyoder » Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:45 pm

vitaum wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:02 pm
I am a beginner foiler and currently own a contra 9m and 11m and like them a lot.
Sounds like you have what you need but maybe have a case of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). The cure is to go kite more. 😂
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Chriz76
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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby Chriz76 » Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:01 pm

After two years I switched from a 12m Flysurfer Soul to a Juice Dlab 13qm for lowend foiling with focus on jumping. The lowend is maybe a bit better with the Soul but I had a lot of swims with it and in our on/off conditions I prefer a tube kite. Compared to my SST 10 jumping and especially landing is much better with the Dlab. If you are not jumping a one strutter might be the cheaper choice.

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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby Oldman_Dave » Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:31 pm

I've tried a lot of kites for foiling. I've settled on 1 strut with next-gen materials as being the best for me - in my case the Airush Ultra Team FTW.

dlabs not relevant really as too many struts (neo/evo) except for juice, and juice too big except for the smallest size as a lightest wind kite.

Wind range not so important as you're typically not in kites upper wind ranges, so 3 stut rigidity not so important.

SLS are OK for foiling but not great in lighter wind, still too heavy to be ideal.

lifeinthehood
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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby lifeinthehood » Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:55 pm

Define "better"? The new materials get you a lightweight kite. So they stay in the air in lower winds than 3 strut kites with standard Dacron. I use a 8M A-Roam for super light conditions, but only because the 8M is as light if not lighter (1.67kg/3.7lbs) than an equivalent 8M SS UFO or BRM Cloud. At the wind speeds I use it in, in my location (the Gorge), the wind could shut off. If it does, a 3 strut is just a bit easier to get relaunched when little gusts come back. Plus, I like to keep it in case I want to pull out the directional or twin tip. If weight is your primary consideration - learn to use a single skin foil or hybrid kite. Nothing else comes close in weight. Why are they a no go in your area?

Some say the strutless kites pull more at the same wind speed. Maybe it's the slightly increased canopy area from lack of struts. Maybe it's the lack of structure so the canopy captures more of the wind power. But I think a lot of people who foil like the strutless kites for their fantastic maneuverability, drift, and the instant release of wind power from sheeting out. Maybe not the greatest for jumping, though Fred proves that doesn't necessarily hold you back. You didn't say why you didn't like the UFO. It could be that it takes some getting used to esp if your normal kites are 9 and 11m 3 strut kites. It took some practice to get used to the fast moving strutless kites (I use the BRM Clouds). But once you do, the 3 strut kites feel unacceptably slow.

That said, I'm still not making argument that you should go strutless rather than 3-strut. I'm just stating my preference. Here in the Gorge I've seen plenty of AMAZING foilers on standard 3 strut kites. There was this regular in Hood River this summer who was likely a North sponsored rider - all North gear - who was flying a North Reach 7m and was throwing enormous mega loops. But this was in like 15-18 knot winds. I don't know what he would use in light wind if he went out at all in light winds. We don't often get light winds here. :lol:
Last edited by lifeinthehood on Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vakiter
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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby vakiter » Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:31 am

Jyoder is right.

I also suffer

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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby rnelias » Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:44 am

I have a Boxer 9m for foiling and recently got a Crave HL, also 9m, mostly for TT ride.

Crave HL is about 200 grams lighter than the Boxer but I have not used it for foiling yet. Some reasons are holding me back: the kite is brand new, I've bought it in a good deal. Sadly, I mostly ride in polutted water and sand and the Boxer is already my "warrior kite" for foiling :lol: . I've already had some TT sessions on Crave. Excelent kite with incredible low end, fast and drifts very well. My guess is that it would be better than Boxer for foiling since it has more range and is lighter. OR HL kites are with good discounts now and, if you have a chance to get one, I think it would be a good solution to your question but it would be better test the kite before. Here, where I live, we almost never have chance to demo any kite :(

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Slappysan
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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby Slappysan » Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:54 am

vitaum wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:02 pm
I got the weights and it seems that the one strut kites are still lighter, so that makes the one strut better for drifting. But what about everything else?
The reason 1 and 0 strut kites drift so much better than 3 strut kites isn't the weight, it's their ability to luff. This allows them to greatly increase drag and then drift with the wind.

Also new materials and 1 strut aren't exclusive, no reason you can't have them together.

The main reason why 1 or 0 strut kites are normally thought of just for hydrofoiling is because they sit deeper in the window and thus have poor upwind (which doesn't matter to foilers).
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fernmanus
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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby fernmanus » Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:27 am

So much depends on what you want to do.

If you just want to foil, a 1 strut is your cheaper and better choice. Especially, if you are interested in free-style riding.

If you kite where the wind is variable and riders often switch from twin-tip to foil, then a DLAB makes sense. If you like to jump, the Evo is a great choice. I have a friend that boosts high both on his foilboard and his twin tip on a 10m Evo DLAB. He switches back and forth all the time in a single session.

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Re: can a 3 strut dlab be better than a 1 strut kite for foiling?

Postby nixmatters » Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:25 pm

Slappysan wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:54 am
vitaum wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:02 pm
I got the weights and it seems that the one strut kites are still lighter, so that makes the one strut better for drifting. But what about everything else?
Also new materials and 1 strut aren't exclusive, no reason you can't have them together.
The Airush Ultra Team has a Hookipa LE, which though heavier than Aluula is also very stiff and allows a smaller diameter LE = lighter weight. Whether this is indeed the case... not sure.

But what I just noticed is the new V5. Completely redesigned shape! https://airush.com/kites/ultra-team-kite/
Strange it starts from 7m, where the UFO is supposedly no longer a 'love at first flight'.
Keen of hearing unbiased feedback, as I'm still looking for a 7/8m in addition to my 6m UFO V2.


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