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Sizes used for foiling, and everything

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Peter_Frank
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Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:49 pm

Hi

Long time ago, I was intrigued by the challenge to calculate which sizes would be sweetspot in all winds, and to get it to fit real life, so my reference is myself and others of course.

I found a way to calculate which size would give you the sweetspot, using apparent wind, and apparent wind angle (thus loss when low wind and you pinch the angle) etc etc.

Havent updated it for a long time, but because "Wolf of Ainsdale" asked, I post it now, and also updated it with two new curves, Peak kites and Wings, eventhough these are from experience and not calculated nor extrapolated like the other graphs.

I dont have TT kite sizes in this graph, as they are of no interest to me anymore - compared to directionals which has so much more to offer.
And windfoil also omitted, as I dont see much future in these, regarding waves or freestyle (=fun)

I used 25-26 m lines on all LEI kites below 10 m2 for kitefoil, and 28-30 m for 10 m2 and up - but I dont use LEI's anymore for foiling, only for waveriding.
For kitefoiling I solely use Peak kites with normal 21 m lines, and longer lines and Kauper XT for the bigger sizes.

Image

You might say I am totally "bobkus" - I am fine with that, but you can still correlate to your own sizes you prefer, as the way the graphs goes "crazy up" in low wind, is for real no matter how much power you want or dont want :thumb:

8) Peter
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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby JoãoSilva » Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:56 am

Thank you Peter Frank

As a heavy hydrofoiler myself I find the graph close to spot on =)

Windy regards
João Silva
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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby mati » Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:50 am

I agree. I am a 75 kg kite foiler (i tend to use small foils and bigger kites for hang time when jumping).

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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby Wolf of Ainsdale » Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:34 pm

That's cool. I ll update it with strutless kite when I can. Got a quiver now so just need to work out the ranges.

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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:35 pm

Wolf of Ainsdale wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:34 pm
That's cool. I ll update it with strutless kite when I can. Got a quiver now so just need to work out the ranges.

Thanks, but strutless or 5 strut or in between, the ranges are the same, it depends solely on the very kite, but mostly on the rider :D

8) Peter

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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby Blackened » Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:45 pm

I'm a beginner foiler and found it very accurate for my limited experience and having no idea what I'm doing. Will use it for future kite sizing.

Thanks, Peter.
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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby alekbelia » Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:46 am

Nice graphics, even for my weight of 100 kg (without the 3-3.5 m/s range :D ). I'm only curious about the Peak and Kauper line.
Kauper don't have a singleskin kite? Is their foil kite comparable in power per square meter to the singleskins? My observations show that singleskin kites are absolute champions in this parameter. Of course, they are only effective on water with a hydrofoil.
And a plus of my heavy weight. With a 2.5 sq/m singleskin kite and 850 sqm hydrfoil I comfortably ride in an average wind of 16-17 m/s with gusts up to 20 m/s. I also want to order a 2 sq/m kite to use stronger winds as well.
Last edited by alekbelia on Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:24 am

Hi Alex

The Kauper Falcon XT is a superlight doubleskin kite, I have the 11 m2 now.
Way more power than the single skin kites, as they dont have any power when above 7-8 m2, so I always use double skin kites when below 8-9 knots, as they have way more power so can be smaller and still turn fast if really light.

Have had more than a handful of other double skin ultralight foilkites, but now only the 11 m2 Kauper as by far my preferred one in the marginal wind range.

If the graph should be Peak kites only, graph would "die" and these kites wont work at all in 5-6 knots in my experience, too little power and too slow, so using these graph would accelerate up in size and die early.
In the mid and top end, below 8 m2, the Peak kites has loads of power per m2 indeed, they transform from dull powerless sheets, to magical small powermachines able to do everything :rollgrin:

I know a few who likes the 11 and 13 m2 Peak, not me though...

8) Peter
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alekbelia
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Gear: VMG2 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 23 sqm
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Peak5 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
Click 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby alekbelia » Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:17 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:24 am
...I know a few who likes the 11 and 13 m2 Peak, not me though...
Me too. When I owned the Peak4 line, I also had sizes up to 11 sq/m. At Peak5, I already bought only up to 6 sq/m.
I've had success flying a 9 sq/m singleskin kite in 3 m/s but with a 1700 sq/cm foil and a 36 liter board (tooo slooow :D ). In such wind I prefer to ride racing gear.
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Re: Sizes used for foiling, and everything

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Sat Dec 23, 2023 6:41 pm

alekbelia wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:17 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:24 am
...I know a few who likes the 11 and 13 m2 Peak, not me though...
Me too. When I owned the Peak4 line, I also had sizes up to 11 sq/m. At Peak5, I already bought only up to 6 sq/m.
I've had success flying a 9 sq/m singleskin kite in 3 m/s but with a 1700 sq/cm foil and a 36 liter board (tooo slooow :D ). In such wind I prefer to ride racing gear.
Agree, 8m Peak is as big as I like to use on the hydrofoil. I did get a used 13m Peak and rode it a few times on 30m lines but it gets overpowered quickly and the upwind angle is not very good. Or, a lull of a knot or 2 and you can’t get started again, it turns slow. I have used it several times with skis (what it was designed for) and it works great for low winds. A 13-15m race twin skin kite on long lines works better with the hydrofoil for absolute low wind speed.
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