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Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

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Shivix
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Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Shivix » Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:23 pm

Hi all!

I have a 12m fs soul which I like for low end foiling (7-14kn). For the slightly higher wind I wanna get preferably 1 kite to have a nice experience with and practice gybes and tacks further.

-Wind range it needs to cover is between 10 and let's say gusting 19/20 knots.
-I'm 72kg
-I'm riding on a moses t38 board, front wing w683s (1005cm) with s483 stab.

Questions:
-If I go for a 3 strut wave kite (drifter, sst). What windrange can I realistically expect out of a 7 /8 / 9m kite?
-If I go for a 1 strut kite (like the ultra, contra 1s, ghost, os), is there a difference in windrange?
-Will a strutless kite (like gong) provide anything I'm looking for? I believe their top end is rather lacking?
-What about an UFO 7, 8 or 9?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:32 pm

You want ONE kite, and use it in a huge windrange.

Thus the strutless might not be a good choice, as their upper end isnt the same.

Low end is same for strutless or single or multistrut, but of course the lighter ones works a lot better in terms of being able to "hang" in lulls.

@72 kg an 8 m2 LEI will work just fine from 10 knots, and you should be able to ride it in gusts 19-20 eventhough it might be a handful in maneuvers.
Maybe you should pick a 7 m2, would cover your big range more pleasant - and use long lines in the low end.

UFO's seem to be really powerful, so here you should get a 5 or 6 m2 it seems?

8) Peter
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Shivix
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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Shivix » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:00 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:32 pm
You want ONE kite, and use it in a huge windrange.

Thus the strutless might not be a good choice, as their upper end isnt the same.

Low end is same for strutless or single or multistrut, but of course the lighter ones works a lot better in terms of being able to "hang" in lulls.

@72 kg an 8 m2 LEI will work just fine from 10 knots, and you should be able to ride it in gusts 19-20 eventhough it might be a handful in maneuvers.
Maybe you should pick a 7 m2, would cover your big range more pleasant - and use long lines in the low end.

UFO's seem to be really powerful, so here you should get a 5 or 6 m2 it seems?

8) Peter
Thanks Peter!! I'll look for an 8m I think.

I'm more concerned by the low end than the top end. I mostly foil in 7-13kn with the soul, sometimes in like let's say 10 to 17-18 knots. In those days it can gust 20 like a couple times. Realistically the wind range will have some lulls of 9/10, some gusts of 19kn but is 95% of the time in between 12 and 18kn.

I don't like being overpowered on a foil, so if I can manage an 8m then thats what ill try to find :-)

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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby grigorib » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:10 pm

Shivix wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:23 pm
Hi all!

I have a 12m fs soul which I like for low end foiling (7-14kn). For the slightly higher wind I wanna get preferably 1 kite to have a nice experience with and practice gybes and tacks further.

-Wind range it needs to cover is between 10 and let's say gusting 19/20 knots.
-I'm 72kg
-I'm riding on a moses t38 board, front wing w683s (1005cm) with s483 stab.

Questions:
-If I go for a 3 strut wave kite (drifter, sst). What windrange can I realistically expect out of a 7 /8 / 9m kite?
-If I go for a 1 strut kite (like the ultra, contra 1s, ghost, os), is there a difference in windrange?
-Will a strutless kite (like gong) provide anything I'm looking for? I believe their top end is rather lacking?
-What about an UFO 7, 8 or 9?
10-19 is a wild range. For foiling I’d only recommend the UFO which I’ve been riding for last 4.5 years, since the day they were released and they’re just perfect. Single strut kites tend to generate more unnecessary power in tacks/loops and don’t provide as much support in zenith which is good to have in tacks. 3 strutted kites are heavier and need extra size for low end.

683s is an awesome wing, it was my favorite setup of 2019 and there are people who still love 679 (same thing). 20% smaller and 20% thinner than 633 it delivers better cruising and top speed and it’s not missing out much on lowend.

I’d say the 7m for your weight would do the job, yet you’ll get slightly overpowered above 17 knots when whitecaps prevail. 9m would be way too close to your 12m.

I weight 195 lbs and I use 9m UFO for lightest of the winds around and slightly below 10 knots (with 1200 cm² lightwind wing), I use 7m for below whitecaps (either 1200 cm² or 730 cm² freeride wing), 5m for whitecaps and more (730 cm² or 600 cm² race wing), 4m SST comes into picture above 25 knots.

I don’t jump with foil and don’t like to be overpowered on a foil either, yet I fly the kites aggressively.
Last edited by grigorib on Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:16 pm

I havent kitefoiled with LEI's for many years, but have always noted how they felt and the wind so know what I used to use.

Using Peak kites today, but they wont work well for a range 10 to 19 knots, as here one would typically use (at your weight) two kites, a 5 and a 3 m2.

But a 5 and 3 m2 Peak roughly corresponds to a 7 and 5 m2 LEI.

UFO's are more powerful, and many others than me might be able give advice for a one kite LEI quiver with UFO's or other newer LEIs.

You already GOT three 8 m2 LEI's it says at your profile on the right - why not start using these and see how their sizing feel?
Or is it because you want something newer?

8) Peter
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Shivix (Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:24 pm)
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Shivix
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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Shivix » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:23 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:16 pm
I havent kitefoiled with LEI's for many years, but have always noted how they felt and the wind so know what I used to use.

Using Peak kites today, but they wont work well for a range 10 to 19 knots, as here one would typically use (at your weight) two kites, a 5 and a 3 m2.

But a 5 and 3 m2 Peak roughly corresponds to a 7 and 5 m2 LEI.

UFO's are more powerful, and many others than me might be able give advice for a one kite LEI quiver.

You already GOT three 8 m2 LEI's it says at your profile on the right - why not start using these and see how their sizing feel?
Or is it because you want something newer?

8) Peter
Tried the 7m machine once and hated it on the foil haha. So I doubt any of my big air quiver ill like on the foil. It's slow, lots of power especially in the loop. Also doesn't drift at all, so for a beginner foiler (I'm practicing gybes, going pretty okay so far) in my mind it'll all get easier with a wave kite. Also must maintain linetension at all times, otherwise it'll just hindenburg instantly.
Peaks I really like but I'm not at the level to be able to use them yet :)

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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Shivix » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:26 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:10 pm
Shivix wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:23 pm
Hi all!

I have a 12m fs soul which I like for low end foiling (7-14kn). For the slightly higher wind I wanna get preferably 1 kite to have a nice experience with and practice gybes and tacks further.

-Wind range it needs to cover is between 10 and let's say gusting 19/20 knots.
-I'm 72kg
-I'm riding on a moses t38 board, front wing w683s (1005cm) with s483 stab.

Questions:
-If I go for a 3 strut wave kite (drifter, sst). What windrange can I realistically expect out of a 7 /8 / 9m kite?
-If I go for a 1 strut kite (like the ultra, contra 1s, ghost, os), is there a difference in windrange?
-Will a strutless kite (like gong) provide anything I'm looking for? I believe their top end is rather lacking?
-What about an UFO 7, 8 or 9?
10-19 is a wild range. For foiling I’d only recommend the UFO which I’ve been riding for last 4.5 years, since the day they were released and they’re just perfect. Single strut kites tend to generate more unnecessary power in tacks/loops and don’t provide as much support in zenith which is good to have in tacks. 3 strutted kites are heavier and need extra size for low end.

683s is an awesome wing, it was my favorite setup of 2019 and there are people who still love 679 (same thing). 20% smaller and 20% thinner than 633 it delivers better cruising and top speed and it’s not missing out much on lowend.

I’d say the 7m for your weight would do the job, yet you’ll get slightly overpowered above 17 knots when whitecaps prevail. 9m would be way too close to your 12m.

I weight 195 lbs and I use 9m UFO for lightest of the winds around and slightly below 10 knots (with 1200 cm² lightwind wing), I use 7m for below whitecaps (either 1200 cm² or 730 cm² freeride wing), 5m for whitecaps and more (730 cm² or 600 cm² race wing), 4m SST comes into picture above 25 knots.

I don’t jump with foil and don’t like to be overpowered on a foil either, yet I fly the kites aggressively.
Thanks! 17kn for the 7m ufo sounds like its overpowered rather quickly. That's a bummer, hoped it would last in a little stronger wind :) so realistically it would get going between 11-17kn the 7 ufo?

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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby grigorib » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:30 pm

Shivix wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:23 pm

Tried the 7m machine once and hated it on the foil haha. So I doubt any of my big air quiver ill like on the foil. It's slow, lots of power especially in the loop. Also doesn't drift at all, so for a beginner foiler (I'm practicing gybes, going pretty okay so far) in my mind it'll all get easier with a wave kite. Also must maintain linetension at all times, otherwise it'll just hindenburg instantly.
That’s exactly how big air 9m Turbine and its smaller 5m brother felt to me - perfect upwind, amazing boosting, nearly out-of-control powered loops, demands attention in light wind.

I kept using classic Rally then till I tried the SST which looped more gently. And the year I switched to SST I tried the Ghost but then the UFOs were released and they completely captured me.

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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Shivix » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:45 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:30 pm
Shivix wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:23 pm

Tried the 7m machine once and hated it on the foil haha. So I doubt any of my big air quiver ill like on the foil. It's slow, lots of power especially in the loop. Also doesn't drift at all, so for a beginner foiler (I'm practicing gybes, going pretty okay so far) in my mind it'll all get easier with a wave kite. Also must maintain linetension at all times, otherwise it'll just hindenburg instantly.
That’s exactly how big air 9m Turbine and its smaller 5m brother felt to me - perfect upwind, amazing boosting, nearly out-of-control powered loops, demands attention in light wind.

I kept using classic Rally then till I tried the SST which looped more gently. And the year I switched to SST I tried the Ghost but then the UFOs were released and they completely captured me.
Oh awesome! Quite a lot of testing! How does the sst compare to the ghost and ufo on foil? I'm interested/looking at all 3 haha.

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Re: Windrange on foil - what kite to get?

Postby Flyboy » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:47 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:10 pm

10-19 is a wild range. For foiling I’d only recommend the UFO which I’ve been riding for last 4.5 years, since the day they were released and they’re just perfect. Single strut kites tend to generate more unnecessary power in tacks/loops and don’t provide as much support in zenith which is good to have in tacks. 3 strutted kites are heavier and need extra size for low end.

683s is an awesome wing, it was my favorite setup of 2019 and there are people who still love 679 (same thing). 20% smaller and 20% thinner than 633 it delivers better cruising and top speed and it’s not missing out much on lowend.

I’d say the 7m for your weight would do the job, yet you’ll get slightly overpowered above 17 knots when whitecaps prevail. 9m would be way too close to your 12m.

I weight 195 lbs and I use 9m UFO for lightest of the winds around and slightly below 10 knots (with 1200 cm² lightwind wing), I use 7m for below whitecaps (either 1200 cm² or 730 cm² freeride wing), 5m for whitecaps and more (730 cm² or 600 cm² race wing), 4m SST comes into picture above 25 knots.

I don’t jump with foil and don’t like to be overpowered on a foil either, yet I fly the kites aggressively.
I agree with all of this! I use Peaks not UFOs, but foil a lot with people who do use UFOs and I see how their performance stacks up. They are clearly excellent kites for foiling.

I wouldn't get anything bigger than the 7m UFO at your weight. You'll get slightly overpowered above 17 knots (as gregorib says). My buddy, who weighs closer to 82 kg switches to a 5m UFO when the wind is over 15 knots. A 6m would give you a better high end. My suspicion is - as you advance as a foiler - you'll be wanting to foil in higher winds, so a 7m and a 5m would be where you will end up. It also depends a bit on the kind of conditions you ride in: if you're in flat water/smaller swells you are likely to be OK being more powered up, but if you're in waves you will want to be more moderately powered.
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