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Bar for foiling

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:56 am

Why use floaters?

Thats the last thing I will put on a minimalist bar :wink:

Depower yes, floaters no thanks.

8) Peter

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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:29 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:56 am
Why use floaters?

Thats the last thing I will put on a minimalist bar :wink:

Depower yes, floaters no thanks.

8) Peter
Actually it floats on its own but I wanted decrease chances of snagging the leaders over the bar in funny situations - the floaters just add some stiffness for 12 inches. That foam added 10 grams or so

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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby alekbelia » Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:23 am

grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:29 am
Actually it floats on its own but I wanted decrease chances of snagging the leaders over the bar in funny situations - the floaters just add some stiffness for 12 inches. That foam added 10 grams or so
An interesting case with me these days, when I appreciated the pluses of the minimalist bar.
I launched my singleskin at a pretty strong time unluckily. I immediately landed the kite for a backline and everything got very tangled (there were small plants on the snow). I started untangling without disconnecting the bar. As I poked the bar through the tangles many times, I appreciated that if this was a normal bar with a chicken loop, trimmer, floaters, etc., it would be practically impossible.

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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:05 am

Spot on Alex, also, a carbon bar with floaters looks and mentally feels more than 3 times as big and clunky :(

Compared to a clean bar :D

I dont know if I have ever had a line tangle over the bar end - maybe, but it doesnt matter as you can still fly the kite as it only shortens the line a very little bit, so easy to wrap free again.

Somehow I think you have been so used to the floaters grigorib, that you havent given it a though, not to use these, on a kitefoil bar

8) Peter
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby Mynameiszombie » Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:10 pm

THORO wrote: If the slingshot joystick is too expensive don’t search for new minimal bar, especially the kitelab that is even more expensive,
Why? Kitelab bar with this freestyle system and lines from infexion will cost around 400 Euro and Joystick is around 650 Euro.
nixmatters wrote: Why? The drag of your 1,6mm Cabrinha lines is approx. double than the 1,15mm Joystick steering lines. The drag works like sheeting in and you need to trim the bar (pull the depower) to compensate.
Wow! Thank you, man. It's actually obvious when you think about how the steering lines act, but I've never looked at it from that point of view before!
Is 1.15 mm thickness enough in terms of safety? I noticed that Kitelab offers 1.3 mm for steering lines and 1.7 mm for power lines

grigorib wrote: Or I can offer brand new 23m set of Ozone pro race lines. $170
Those look thin but are strong 300kg front, 200kg rear liens
Thanks, I will consider it and get in touch with you.

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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby Mynameiszombie » Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:17 pm

alekbelia wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:18 pm
With inflatable kites, you won't feel a huge difference. But if you switch to single or hybrid kites in the future, the difference is shocking.
Are there any benefits to using single skin or hybrid kites if I am not into snowkiting and not interested in foiling in winds less than 10 knots? I'm wondering how these kites compare to the UFO.

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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:25 pm

Mynameiszombie wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:17 pm
alekbelia wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:18 pm
With inflatable kites, you won't feel a huge difference. But if you switch to single or hybrid kites in the future, the difference is shocking.
Are there any benefits to using single skin or hybrid kites if I am not into snowkiting and not interested in foiling in winds less than 10 knots? I'm wondering how these kites compare to the UFO.

Yes, I will omit hybrid kites as these are something in between, and lets compare.

Almost nobody rides single skin kites in less than 10 knots so here you are wrong, as below they dont work well as bigger sizes are no good, and you can find better double skin kites or even LEI kites here is my experience.

So it is in the range 10-20 knots where single skin kites really shine, and LOADS of benefits compared to LEI's.

Lack of relaunch is the obvious disadvantage of course, and the only one I know of.

Advantages:
Unmatched acceleration at any spot in the wind window.
Unmatched turning speed.
Unmatched drift.
Unmatched rigging and packing time.
Light on the bar, and feels light, which is why a light carbon bar feels a lot better.
No risk of getting lofted.
Can be launched in crazy gusty and tight spots.
Looping power is good, eventhough here some LEI's can match of course.
Can be backed up on the water, and can be backed into position when on a wave.
Can be landed almost everywhere.
Packs supersmall.
No pump needed.

Thus many advantages as you can see :thumb:
Good LEI kites can have many of the similar good aspects - but not all of them IMO.
Of course, the relaunch issue means these good LEI's are used by many, I think the UFO is one of these kites.

8) Peter
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grigorib
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:18 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:05 am
Spot on Alex, also, a carbon bar with floaters looks and mentally feels more than 3 times as big and clunky :(

Compared to a clean bar :D

I dont know if I have ever had a line tangle over the bar end - maybe, but it doesnt matter as you can still fly the kite as it only shortens the line a very little bit, so easy to wrap free again.

Somehow I think you have been so used to the floaters grigorib, that you havent given it a though, not to use these, on a kitefoil bar

8) Peter
Few deathloops with a leader rope over the bar happened to be quite intense for a second so the floaters are helping to keep the leaders away from the bar. I was looking for a very light/thin, yet a bit stiff floaters and those are from good material I found. They can be taken off easily too. Anyways, I lost my job last year and I better sell some gear which I don’t use much.
Last edited by grigorib on Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20/23” Guardian/Sentinel bars, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:26 pm

Mynameiszombie wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:10 pm
grigorib wrote: Or I can offer brand new 23m set of Ozone pro race lines. $170
Those look thin but are strong 300kg front, 200kg rear liens
Thanks, I will consider it and get in touch with you.
I also have 7m Ozone pro race lines extensions for lightwind for another $80

PM me for pics

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alekbelia
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Ozone R1V3 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21 sqm
Peak5 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
Click 2.5, 4, 5, 6 sqm
RRD Religion 4, 5, 6, 7 sqm
Wave RRD Cotan 5.4
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Re: Bar for foiling

Postby alekbelia » Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:31 pm

Mynameiszombie wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:10 pm
Why? Kitelab bar with this freestyle system and lines from infexion will cost around 400 Euro and Joystick is around 650 Euro.
I will soon offer my custom bar with lines for around 170 euros. The bar will look exactly like the picture below. For several months, the bar has been tested by me and several friends. The reviews are very positive.
I am currently working on building a website where full specifications and photographs will be posted as well as usage tips.
I am also preparing a big surprise that will completely replace the already outdated chicken loop. This bar and quick release would however only be recommended for singleskin kites. A photograph of the pre-production copy is in the second picture.
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